Dimme wrote:
Interestingly they extend all the way down where there is no TMA below.
Yes, that’s what I’ve said the whole time… That’s the situation in most of Sweden.
Apparently ESMM ACC which does enroute control for the the S-SW-most parts of the country has decided to split ATC and FIS frequencies. That was news to me. I’m not sure if it is a good or bad thing.
Interestingly they extend all the way down where there is no TMA below.
Airborne_Again wrote:
Seriously, who else should I talk to!?
The frequency assigned to ESOS ACC sector 4, which is 118.205 as you correctly mentioned. (ENR 2.2-16)
And also apparently covers part of the CTA, interesting.
Dimme wrote:
Do you talk to Sweden Control responsible for Suecia CTA at 1500 feet in Class G? Please provide an example in that case.
All the time when there is no TMA above. Seriously, who else should I talk to!?
A very concrete example is the Uppland fire patrol route which is partially flown about 20 NM N-NW of Stockholm TMA, at typical altitudes of 1000-1500 feet. You talk to Sweden on 118.205.
Airborne_Again wrote:
I didn’t write “TMA above”, I wrote “class C above”. SUECIA CTA is class C.
Do you talk to Sweden Control responsible for Suecia CTA at 1500 feet in Class G? Please provide an example in that case.
Dimme wrote:
The FIS frequency in these areas cannot be the ATC frequency for the TMA above, since there is no TMA above.
I didn’t write “TMA above”, I wrote “class C above”. SUECIA CTA is class C.
Fun fact: 133.805 is the ATC unit “Sweden Control” but may only be used in G-airspace, essentially as an “FIS” unit.
You’re right, but that’s the only place in Sweden where this happens and I actually thought that this instance of ATC/FIS frequency split had been abandoned.
ACC sector lines where the FIS frequency changes. You see it doesn’t always match the class C above.
Ibra wrote:
ATC does FIS for Class G bellow Class C all the way to the ground (or radio level) and can give R-permission and status…
Not really, they also cover airspace not directly below their class C. See my answer above.
Airborne_Again wrote:
But the ATC unit of the class C above does FIS for the class G.
Almost, but not really. The entirety of the Sweden FIR is divided into ACC sectors. Those ACC sectors encompass both controlled and uncontrolled airspace. There is uncontrolled airspace in certain areas all the way up to FL95. The FIS frequency in these areas cannot be the ATC frequency for the TMA above, since there is no TMA above. However, all FIS frequencies, which happen to coincide with other ATC frequencies since ATC provides the Flight Information Service, can be found in AIP ENR 2.2-6 until AIP ENR 2.2-18 under “ACC-sectors”.
Example:
Fun fact: 133.805 is the ATC unit “Sweden Control” but may only be used in G-airspace, essentially as an “FIS” unit. However, you will still hear anyone talking to 134.980 being relayed on 133.805.
Ibra wrote:
The comparaison for 3.2.1 is very moot as in 95% of ICAO countries: you can’t realistically, file & fly IFR OCAS above 3kft agl so only an outlier vs 5% of remaining countries…
I don’t know about all ICAO countries in the world, but in Europe – beside Sweden – we have Norway, Finland, the UK, France… Also, as far as I understand, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland…
