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The 8.000ft “industry standard” is probably also sales driven because for NA engines this is where you get the highest TAS

Biggin Hill

I have never seen 8000ft as being defined as an industry standard, but it is probably about right for maximum TAS on a non-turbo installation in a fairly standard certified IFR tourer (i.e. Vs just below the 60kt legal certification limit and Vbg thus being about 95kt).

I don’t think it would be true on say a C152.

As for turbo engined aircraft, if no altitude or FL is specified in the advertisement (and usually it isn’t) then it could be anything. With enough turbo boost, best TAS will be at something like FL250.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

I have never seen 8000ft as being defined as an industry standard

I never said it was an actual standard, but maybe it is, who knows? It is simply the number “everybody” uses when quoting cruise performance.

The elephant is the circulation
ENVA ENOP ENMO, Norway

It is simply the number “everybody” uses when quoting cruise performance

Reference please.

Especially if the aircraft can barely even reach 8000ft…

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

6,000 to 8,000 feet (ISA) is around full throttle, 75% power for most normally aspirated reciprocating engines – which usually translates to optimum cruise TAS – at least the TAS cruise speed quoted in the marketing literature.

I have not figured out how to import the range radius for the vintage Super Cub, but with a 90 HP Continental and 35 USG it has bladder testing endurance. 400 nm with ample reserves is a realistic cruising range. At a best range speed of around 75 knots and 45 minute reserve, on a smooth day, VMC range might be over 550 nm.

Oxford (EGTK), United Kingdom

Maximum TAS is nearly always obtained at sea level for a normally aspirated engine.

8000’ is often quoted as it is about the maximum altitude that can still provide the maximum continuous or cruise power setting.
That will probably be WOT but with a more economical mixture setting and resulting in a slightly lower TAS than the max power sea level case.

KHWD- Hayward California; EGTN Enstone Oxfordshire, United States
So is IAS….

Can you explain why?

For exactly the same reason. Without knowing the density altitude, it doesn’t tell you anything about performance.
Last Edited by Airborne_Again at 03 Oct 19:25
ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

And while I know both are flawed, TAS is at least an actual speed through the air. Yes you need altitude but to compare on IAS is really odd.

EGTK Oxford

Different aircraft tend to fly at different altitudes. You wouldn’t advertise an A320 by its speed at 8000ft and you wouldn’t advertise a C172 by its speed at 12000ft.

As to the Cirrus SR22T or Piper PA46 argument, these are touring aircraft designed for FL200+. If you don’t intend to fly them there, then you’re not really the target audience.

NA piston aircraft perform best at 8000ft which is why this is a very sensible altitude to use in comparisons. All POHs assume ISA (and usually give another set of values for above and below ISA) so TAS is the best way to compare aircraft performance.

Peter’s argument very much applies to how e.g. the T182T (the turbo fixed gear C182 that Cessna stopped producing last year) is marketed. It has a very draggy airframe but the TIO-540 makes it climb to FL200 and up there it is almost as fast as the TR182 (retractable gear) because the air is so thin that dragging the gear comes at a very small penalty. Same goes for the SR22T — at FL250 the fixed gear has a negligible influence. So the T182T is marketed with its high speed at a level it is rarely ever used while it is at least 20kt slower at normal cruising levels than its RG sibling.

I have two data points from the flight just now, FL070 +8C full throttle:

Best power (130F ROP):

18.5 GPH TAS 164
MP 22.7" 2575 RPM
IAS 147
This is the absolute fastest the TB20 will go at FL070 and +8C.

Best economy (peak EGT):

11.5 GPH TAS 155
MP 22.7" 2400 RPM
IAS 139

Go figure! Guess which figure a salesman would use… and will he mention the fuel flow? No.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom
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