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Honda Jet (merged thread)

A third reason would be the requirement to have some form of organization when operating a jet above 5700kg, in which case you end up with nearly an AOC operation anyway, so might just as well. But, there are exceptions. Volvo and Ericsson share a couple 7Xs operated privately, no AOC involved.

ESSB, Stockholm Bromma

Do you mean that a company which owns a jet for corporate use is selling tickets? I can’t see that – only an idiot would do that because of the evidence you leave behind.

Of course not. But I know several ways how this can be done. Very often there are (freelance) pilots who will ask regular passengers “I don’t know how much they charge you for that flight, but next time, call me directly and I can arrange something a lot cheaper”. He will then hire the corporate plane of someone he uses to fly for and either fly himself or ask another pilot to do that flight for him “these are customers of the plane owner but none of his pilots is free on that day…”. Been asked dozens of times to do this kind of stuff, easy money if all goes well, 50.000 Euros fine otherwise (I know a guy who got caught and sentenced to pay that much). But back when I was younger and needed the money, … The main problem here is that the pilot alone will be held responsible.

Another very common form of illegal commercial flight are owners who will let friends and business partners use their plane (with pilots usually) and bill them for it in some way. In this case, an employed pilot takes no risk. In Germany, there is a completely legal way however to do this, just ask for permission to do “nichtgewerbliche Flüge gegen Entgelt” (non-commercial flights for renumeration) which is usually granted for a certain number of flights per year.

EDDS - Stuttgart

Volvo and Ericsson share a couple 7Xs operated privately, no AOC involved.

Most large German corporations operate their aircraft privately outside AOCs. They don’t care about fuel tax because they can deduct it from their tax bill just like any other cost. One car manufacturer operates his own Airbus beside a fleet of Falcons privately. They have their own full time operations and maintenance departments which would be sufficient to run a small airline!

EDDS - Stuttgart

The reason the SJ30 didn’t sell, is because the makers kept going bust! First Swearingen-Jaffe, then Emivest and then some other guy. Now Syberjet has bought the rights to it and apparently production is starting up again. It also suffered from being a little ahead of it’s time. The VLJ craze, the single pilot jet era hadn’t really taken hold by the time it came to market. But for sheer looks and performance, the SJ30 is in my book the gold standard. It’s such a stunner that thing. Ed Swearingen always had a beautiful design philosophy and I do hope it can make a comeback. Actor Morgan Freeman has one.

Last Edited by AdamFrisch at 29 Dec 01:30

`Adam, I might put it to you that it’s possibly not a coincidence that the makers kept going bust. Maybe if the product was better they would have stayed in business.

Same comments for Eclipse and Grob

Darley Moor, Gamston (UK)

But for sheer looks and performance, the SJ30 is in my book the gold standard.

To me, both looks and performance are very similar to the Dassault Falcon 10 which has been on the market since 1970, so nothing new here. When I look at the “Emivest” site, they have currently two maintenance bases in the States and zero everywhere else. Compare that to Cessna or Embraer… Who is going to spend millions on an aircraft that is going to spend weeks on the ground for every minor fault because spare parts and mechanics have to be flown in from the other side of the continent or globe? The same problem will affect the Hondajet initially. And then, in the year 2014 in the above 15000lb class to which the SJ30 belongs, a “stand-up” cabin is almost a must. This is why Cessna currently can’t sell anything below the Excel.

Ed Swearingen always had a beautiful design philosophy …

Having flown the Metroliner for some time, I have a slightly different view regarding this

EDDS - Stuttgart

Ed Swearingen died last week, btw. He was 88 years old. Regardless of the SJ30, there is no doubt that the man had some legendary designs under his belt. Last of his kind, really. I doubt an engineer today would get so many different aircraft designs into production as he did.

Interestingly, for GA, his little SX300 is still one of the best looking planes made. It’ll beat an Aerostar any day of the weak with the right engine. That thing is fast! Too bad they didn’t make many of them. I’ve heard the owners are a devout bunch that rarely part with their aircraft.

RIP, Ed.

Link

Last Edited by AdamFrisch at 21 May 18:49

We have all read a vast amount about this plane but I have never seen a proper explanation of why this is supposed to make it go faster on less juice.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

I think it has to do with area rule. As an obstruction or mass in the airflow is presented, you want to make room for the displaced airmass to be able to go around it without having to compress, which adds drag. You see it on modern biz jets too – there’s normally a cutout in the fuselage around the rear engines so the air can deflect around nacelle. But on most of the older jets, this is not the case. On the HondaJet the nacelle sits so far behind the trailing edge of the plane, that there’s plenty room for the air mass to deflect around it. This reduces drag.

Also, because the wing is already beefed up to take the loads, it needs less structure to also support the engines than a traditional biz jet where you need to beef up the engine mounts, cabin and tail to support it, which adds extra weight.

I think it’s a spectacular little jet. If I had that money and was shopping for a VLJ, I’d put it high on the list.

Last Edited by AdamFrisch at 26 Aug 14:24

An airplane structure can be built in the lightest possible – and thereby most efficient – way if the mass is concentrated where the lift is generated. Therefore, for optimum performance of any aircraft, the engines belong under or over the wing. They tell you that in the first lecture of every aerospace engineering course at university (at least they did during my time).
In a small plane, “under the wing” is no practical solution. But we are slowly getting there, the latest regional airliners like the Embraer 190 or the Bombardier C series (what a beauty she is!) have their engines where engines need to be.

Another benefit of the overwing position is that the engines operate at peak efficiency in undisturbed airflow, even with significant yaw.

Last Edited by what_next at 26 Aug 14:40
EDDS - Stuttgart
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