Police check on pilots departing before filed EOBT

dublinpilot wrote:

Lessons for everyone.

Good summary.

dublinpilot wrote:

ATC shouldn’t have allowed Peter to go on his way until they have checked with customs if they wished to attend.

That’s not ATC job though. They don’t have to know about airport formalities, just help movement in air / on the ground to be done safely.

A key point as stated, is that the customs notification time is normally a different form, that does not (and probably should not) coincide with EOBT

I agree that is not the job of ATC.

It probably isnt strictly the job of the airport administrators either, but in reality they are the point of liason. I always ask when I pay if its ok to go, or whether the Boarder Force will want to see me. In this culture of ours today then at least I can say I have asked the only possible people to ask, and in any event they usually know if they are hanging around or likely to turn up!

It does more often seem to be the case as long as you have made a half sensible effort then the “problem” goes away.

dublinpilot wrote:

Normal practice is that you arrive in via the arrivals door and walk past the customs desk.

dublinpilot wrote:

In smaller airports, where there is no arrivals door, and no landside/airside boundary, you simply arrive and customs will come find you.

The recent Arrêté makes a distinction between two types of airports of entry:

• those that have permanent (within published hours of operations) presence of customs/immigration. Here you cannot expect customs to come to you. You would normally walk in through arrivals where they have a checkpoint. If not, as is the case in Carcassonne for example, or Toulouse Blagnac, it is your responsibility to seek them up. You can depart or arrive when you want within customs hours of operations.
• those that do not. Avignon is one of them. Here prior notification is required. By default it is 24 hrs. Notification is expected by e-mail. The officials will normally come to you unless you are at Le Touquet where you walk past them landside/airside.

If you divert to an airfield that does not have permanent presence of customs, it is the pilot’s responsibility to contact the customs/immigration authorities immediately after landing.

Fuji_Abound wrote:

It probably isnt strictly the job of the airport administrators either

According to the recent Arrêté, it is, in the case of non-commercial flights, the responsibility of the pilot in command.

As far as not departing before the time you notified you would, and staying with the airplane until after your arrival notification time, this is something that was part of the Norwegian PPL TK in 1995. I have no idea what the legal basis for it is, but as so many things in aviation, I would not be surprised if there is something in an annex to the Chicago convention (SARPS). I tried to look it up but it seems you have to buy the document.

Here are the parts of the Chicago Convention that are relevant to this subject. See especially Article 37 j) I have been specifically trying to find the “international standards and procedures” for customs and immigration but have not been successful so far. Article 38 tells me one could search if France has filed a difference from international standards and procedures concerning customs and immigration.

Article 10
Landing at customs airport
Except in a case where, under the terms of this Convention or a special authorization, aircraft are permitted to cross the territory of a contracting State without landing, every aircraft which enters the territory of a contracting State shall, if the regulations of that State so require, land at an airport designated by that State for the purpose of customs and other examination. On departure from the territory of a contracting State, such aircraft shall depart from a similarly designated customs airport. Particulars of all designated customs airports shall be published by the State and transmitted to the International Civil Aviation Organization established under Part 11 of this Convention for communication to all other contracting States.

Article 16
Search of aircraft
The appropriate authorities of each of the contracting States shall have the right, without unreasonable delay, to search aircraft of the other contracting States on landing or departure, and to inspect the certificates and other documents prescribed by this Convention.

Article 37
Adoption of international standards and procedures
Each contracting State undertakes to collaborate in securing the highest practicable degree of uniformity in regulations, standards, procedures, and organization in relation to aircraft, personnel, airways and auxiliary services in all matters in which such uniformity will facilitate and improve air navigation.
To this end the International Civil Aviation Organization shall adopt and amend from time to time, as may be necessary, international standards and recommended practices and procedures dealing with:
a. Communications systems and air navigation aids, including ground marking;
b. Characteristics of airports and landing areas;
c. Rules of the air and air traffic control practices;
d. Licensing of operating and mechanical personnel;
e. Airworthiness of aircraft;
f. Registration and identification of aircraft;
g. Collection and exchange of meteorological information;
h. Log books;
i. Aeronautical maps and charts;
j. Customs and immigration procedures;
k. Aircraft in distress and investigation of accidents;
and such other matters concerned with the safety, regularity, and efficiency of air navigation as may from time to time appear appropriate.

Article 38
Departures from international standards and procedures
Any State which finds it impracticable to comply in all respects with any such international standard or procedure, or to bring its own regulations or practices into full accord with any international standard or procedure after amendment of the latter, or which deems it necessary to adopt regulations or practices differing in any particular respect from those established by an international standard, shall give immediate notification to the International Civil Aviation Organization of the differences between its own practice and that established by the international standard. In the case of amendments to international standards, any State which does not make the appropriate amendments to its own regulations or practices shall give notice to the Council within sixty days of the adoption of the amendment to the international standard, or indicate the action which it proposes to take. In any such case, the Council shall make immediate notification to all other states of the difference which exists between one or more features of an international standard and the corresponding national practice of that State

to come back to the “reality” when I release when I am on route that my ETA isth more than 10-15min out from my original notification to the arrivl airport i normaly ask FIS to give the airport a call so the can delay the police etc. So far this has always worked for me
just be pracmatic not pedantic work together have fun no stress works for me when I am flying

Mooney_Driver wrote:

Peter wrote:
Yes; ATC told me there are “two men” walking to the plane. They were about 20m away at that point.
And that was at the holding point. I would suggest that this might have been illegal on their part to be there. At least where I work, to be that close to the runway is totally forbidden and nobody interferes with a taxiing airplane either. From the point of view of ramp security, this is unacceptable.
As you said, if customs wanted to stop your flight, they should have asked the tower to return you to the tarmac.

For this reason alone, I would file an incident report. They had nothing to do there. Police or customs or whoever the h*ll they think they are.

Wilco wrote:

On arrival you must go first to the airside immigration kiosks on the outside of the east facing wall of the terminal. If there is no-one there, enter via the GA door at the northern end of the terminal and say hello at the administration desk at the southern end. They will know if customs plan to attend.
You should always seek out the douanniers if they are there. On departure, you will usually know because their cars are highly visible in the parking lot near the terminal. Their office is to your half right as you enter the terminal. If they are not there and not coming, the ops people will tell you.

Thanks Wilco. While highly non-standard, it is good to know.

Nevertheless, it starts to become increasingly difficult to know all the particularities about each single small airfield around. It appears that not two of them are remotely the same. I think that this is something which should be brought to a wider attention, as it is a MASSIVE problem for GA.

A few weeks ago, I attended a roadmap presentation by EASA in Berne, and this subject was rightly mentioned by several attendants. In a discussion with the two EASA reps there, they said that while it was not a EASA matter to take care of, they were appalled at some of the facts they were told about the way GA is treated and promised to keep these things in mind and to bring it up whenever they would see a chance.

While this does not make me hold my breath, it is at least a good sign that EASA reps appear to be interested in this kind of feedback. Therefore, I agree, an incident report would be a good way to make those responsible aware.

IMHO, there must be something done on an European level to standardize procedures and to restrict the abuse of PPR by airports which obviously do not want GA or are too lazy to accomodate them. They need to be reminded that GA is part of their job and it is not their place to decide whether they want them or not. IMHO, PPR of any kind should require the need for approval by the national authorities and only allowed if the airport can PROVE that it is absolutely necessary. E.G. parking PPR would need to prove to the authorities that they do not have enough physical space for parking, general PPR would need REASONS why they need it. It would then be up to the national authorities to deny PPR rules if they are used wrongfully.

The same goes for airports of entry. It is totally crazy that almost every airport has it’s own little procedure to follow which people have to research via internet fora rather than the AIP. Customs PPR does make sense insofar as without it we’d probably loose 90% of the customs airports we have left, but it has to be done within a reasonable timeframe and with sufficient flexibility not to deny GA what makes it worthwile most, namely flexible times. If you have to schedule a GA flight days before and stick to that schedule or else, then GA looses one of it’s most valuable assets.

Mooney_Driver wrote:

While highly non-standard, it is good to know.

Could you share what the standard is, Mooney_Driver, and where is it described?

I have been searching for it high and low and am unable to find it. The AIPs (GEN 1.3) of various European countries including France, Germany and UK are not helpful in that respect.

To me the standard is when landing or departing from an airfield that does not have a permanent customs/immigration checkpoint (as indicated in the customs/immigration section of AIP AD)

1. You have to check AIP AD (supplemented by NOTAM) for availability of customs/immigration and follow the procedure therein to provide PN (prior notice) or request PP (prior permission)
2. You cannot leave before the time of the PN/PP and if you arrive after PN/PP you need to stay with the airplane until such time.

Mooney_Driver wrote:

It is totally crazy that almost every airport has it’s own little procedure to follow which people have to research via internet fora rather than the AIP.

I do not agree with this. AIP and NOTAM are the valid sources of information for aircrews and operators. Internet forums may provide feedbacks but I will not blindly rely on that information. I NEVER search airport websites for local customs/immigration procedures. They are not an official source of information, do not always contain the required information, and are not always up to date. I seldom call the airport unless required for parking PPR for example.

As far as France is concerned, the old (Arrêté du 20 avril 1998 portant ouverture des aérodromes au trafic aérien international) and the new (Arrêté du 24 octobre 2017 relatif au franchissement des frontières par les personnes et les marchandises sur les aérodromes) both state that information pertaining to customs/immigration procedures at French aerodromes shall be published through aeronautical publications meaning AIP and NOTAM (and possibly AIC which I seldom read). All you need to know is in AIP AD and NOTAM.

If they, like Tours, Bergerac and Bourges do not publish the PPR requirement by AIP/NOTAM like they are legally obligated to according to the links above, that’s tough luck on them. They will be hard pressed to demonstrate that you should know when they do not follow French law.

Concerning Avignon the AIP AD LFMV is however very clear as far as extra-Schengen flights are concerned:

2 | Douanes et police / Customs and immigration | O/R PPR PN 24HR auprès de l’exploitant d’AD (CCI) | O/R PPR PN 24HR from AD operator (CCI)

(except that it is tough to understand “O/R PPR PN” – one of the three should suffice)

On a different note, I see that the UK AIP GEN 1.3 states

2.2.3 Powers and Obligations of Captains and Owners or Agents of Aircraft Under the Immigration Act 1971
(b) to ensure that persons who have arrived in the United Kingdom do not disembark until examined by a Border Force Officer or other than in accordance with arrangements approved by a Border Force Officer;
(c) to ensure that passengers are presented for examination in an orderly manner

It does not mention the GAR once. So how are we to know that a GAR is required for flights to the UK?

In the case of EGKA (random selection) it says so in AIP AD EGKA:
2 | Customs and Immigration Available on request. Complete and submit GAR forms (available on website) prior to departure. Do not send to ATC. Phone, Fax and e-mail details for submitting GAR forms available on web site. Immigration, 3 hours notice required. Special Branch 12 hours prior notice required.