I’ll do my best to avoid giving you my life story, but 100 of my close colleagues and friends and I here in Hamburg have found ourselves in a position where we are being forced to re-locate somewhere else in Europe or take redundancy. I’ve been doing my current job for almost 8 years (and it’s certainly not one I want to do for the rest of my life) so I think this could be a good opportunity to look at alternative careers.
I have only recently earned my PPL but have spent the best part of half my life around GA aircraft, whether it’s going up in a spare seat with a friend or being a hangar rat at my local farm strip helping out where I can. When I was younger the dream was always to be a professional pilot. That dream never changed but had to be postponed indefinitely as I can only meet the requirements for a class 2 medical. I knew that whatever else I did, it would have to be in aviation.
A couple of ideas that have crossed my mind so far are aircraft sales and engineering.
I know absolutely nothing about how to become a broker/salesman when it comes to aircraft and google searches provide no information. From reading this forum certified aircraft sales are arguably on the decline and the future lies in kits and light sport aircraft. Do aircraft salesmen exist? How do you become one?
I also did a little research on engineering. From what I found it takes a minimum two years training then another two years on the job before becoming licensed. How is the pay after that?
In an ideal world I would like to stay in Germany, and I have been learning the language, but it’s still not to a standard where I could pass an interview.
Any more inspiration, information, or experience would be appreciated.
Hello Tom!
As no one seems to take up that thread and I myself once decided to earn my living in GA, coming from a different profession, a few thoughts (not in the order of the questions):
NinerEchoPapa wrote:
In an ideal world I would like to stay in Germany, and I have been learning the language, but it’s still not to a standard where I could pass an interview.
This should not be much of a problem in a large company, but the smaller the company and the more GAish it gets, the more German you will need to speak. In Lufthansa maintenance or at any Airbus plant you will be fine with good English, but working for a sailplane manufacturer on the Suebian Alb or as a sales representative for a microlight manufacturer you must be able to converse in the local language. As the job interview will probably be done with somebody who speaks English this will not be the highest hurdle. Just tell them beforehand that you are still in the early stages of learning German.
NinerEchoPapa wrote:
I know absolutely nothing about how to become a broker/salesman when it comes to aircraft …
Every (temporarily) unemployed pilot/technician/aircraft cleaner and their dogs have already tried their luck in that sector. Very few with any noticeable success, but maybe you are the one? It’s an extreme matter of being at the right place at the right time and knowing lots and lots and even more lots of people. Again – some have succeeded, so why not you… My guess (really only a guess!) would be that in Germany (population 80M) not more than 10 people can earn their living from being aircraft salespersons / representatives / brokers alone. But yes, manage the sale of a second hand A380 and your 5% commission will mean that you will never have to work again in your life 
(an A380 is not really a GA plane though unless bought and operated by someone as his personal aircraft).
NinerEchoPapa wrote:
I also did a little research on engineering. From what I found it takes a minimum two years training then another two years on the job before becoming licensed. How is the pay after that?
Depending on you past and current occupation, some of it can maybe be credited towards an aircraft mechanic license. Otherwise you will have to go through an apprenticeship (“Lehre”) as you outline. Depending where you work and how well you work it is possible to get paid decently during that time. Regarding payment after achieving a licensed status you will look forward to a typical salary of a trained professional (“Facharbeiter”), as usual somewhat proportional to the size of the company and the occupation itself. I guess that an experienced technician working night shifts at Lufthansa Technik (which is of course not GA) might earn even more than the pilots who fly the planes he looks after… On the other hand, working for a three-man workshop on a small airfield in the “pampa” which do 100hr inspections on the dozen or so locally stationed Pipers and Cessnas and the odd tyre change on a visiting aircraft will hardly get you more than 2000 Euros a month. If at all. And unlicensed and microlight and glider stuff even less.
My recommendation would be to look at bizjet operators who do their own maintenance (like the company I work for). Our mechanics (“engineer” in German designates someone who has sat out 6 years in auditoriums at university and gained some academic degrees there) or technicians, whatever you like to call them, have a good job and decent pay (I guess – looking at the cars they drive – not much less than I get as bizjet captain). They are quite picky however and over the 10 years I have been working there they kicked out quite a few applicants during their probation time. It is teamwork and if you don’t fit that specific team you will not be welcome there.
In your region, I can think about companies like Atlas Air Service, Air Hamburg, Jet Aviation or even Aerowest or VW Air Service. It might be worthwile to do some googling and enquiries. Just like pilots, technicians working in the GA sector are magically drawn towards the supposedly greener grass growing where the airlines are, so job opportunities come up all the time at short notice!
Regards
Max
what_next wrote:
As the job interview will probably be done with somebody who speaks English this will not be the highest hurdle. Just tell them beforehand that you are still in the early stages of learning German.
My concern is that this will already be an immediate negative point that will go against me in an interview. All I can do in the meantime is to continue learning.
what_next wrote:
in Germany (population 80M) not more than 10 people can earn their living from being aircraft salespersons / representatives / brokers alone.
This would explain why there’s such a lack of information available online I suppose!
what_next wrote:
On the other hand, working for a three-man workshop on a small airfield in the “pampa” which do 100hr inspections on the dozen or so locally stationed Pipers and Cessnas and the odd tyre change on a visiting aircraft will hardly get you more than 2000 Euros a month. If at all. And unlicensed and microlight and glider stuff even less.
This comes as no surprise, unfortunately. I suspect this will be the case everywhere unless I can find something in a service centre that caters to a specific few types of aircraft?
what_next wrote:
My recommendation would be to look at bizjet operators who do their own maintenance
Ever since I was lucky enough to get a jumpseat in a Falcon 2000 back in 2005 (and last year a Citation Latitude) the bizjet industry has always been on my radar. I’ve looked being cabin crew (which fits in with my current job, but unfortunately I don’t speak 4 languages nor do I have several years first class experience or physical attributes normally only found on females…) and hangar/ramp coordinator. Teamwork will be no problem as that has been a daily factor in my career so far. I’ll look into your suggestion a bit more closely.
Thanks for your helpful reply, Max.
On another note, I understand that there is no flying job I can do without a class 1 medical. Can anybody confirm this to be absolute fact? Is there any way around this requirement?
NinerEchoPapa wrote:
On another note, I understand that there is no flying job I can do without a class 1 medical. Can anybody confirm this to be absolute fact? Is there any way around this requirement?
A difficult one… Theoretically any company can employ you as “sales assistant” or “assistant to the management” (“Assistent der Geschäftsleitung” in German) or “fleet manager” and make it part of your duties to look after the corporate Malibu or CitationJet or PC12 and accompany the CEO to his meetings every now and then, thereby handling the controls of the plane. You will get away as a PPL holder with that (+IR +HPA +class rating). Only when flying the corporate plane is your main duty you will need a CPL/ATPL and class 1 medical. Of course you will be limited to what one can fly on a PPL: single pilot part 23 aircraft. The problem is that no one, unless you know him personally, will employ you as long as the CPL/ATPL holders are queuing outside his door.
Another option is to be a flying instructor outside commercial FTOs, for which a CPL is required. Flying clubs, gliders, microlights. But don’t expect to be paid enough to make a living from it. That would rather be something to do beside another (part time) job and which would get you free flying time. And very satisfying one as well!
what_next wrote:
Of course you will be limited to what one can fly on a PPL: single pilot part 23 aircraft.
Just out of curiosity. Where is that limitation written?
what_next wrote:
Another option is to be a flying instructor outside commercial FTOs, for which a CPL is required
As long as you only instruct on the PPL/IR-Level, I see no reason why training at a commercial ATO should require a CPL.
you will be limited to what one can fly on a PPL: single pilot part 23 aircraft
If I read FCL.720.A correctly you only need the ATPL TK exams and an MCC course, plus a Multi Engine IR. Of course normally one would get a CPL in the course of doing this stuff, but at least in theory it should be possible (e.g. for someone unable to get a class 1 medical) to get a multi-pilot-TR with a PPL only.
Correct?
tschnell wrote:
Correct?
Yes, at least I think so. But you can’t get paid for that, so nobody will employ you. Unless, as I wrote above, your best buddy wins the lottery, buys himself a KingAir, asks you to fly it for him and as an alibi pays you for mowing his garden. No joke, years ago I knew a pilot like this. After some time they started offering flights to third parties in their King Air and eventually got done for illegal commercial operations. Never heard of the guy again.
And yes, instructing at PPL level only requires a PPL even in a commercial FTO. But again, there are plenty of CPL/ATPL “hour builders” queuing for those jobs so the chances of getting one with just a PPL are remote.
what_next wrote:
but you can’t get paid for that, so nobody will employ you
A theoretical scenario, I fully admit. OTOH: I know a VFR-PPL-pilot who regularly “flies” right seat on a corporate King Air 350 and gets paid for it. This is a single pilot operation, meaning he is not a required crewmember. Technically he is nothing more than a radio operator, flight log secretary or approach chart search assistant, but he has a blast doing it beside his (flexible) regular job.
but you can’t get paid for that, so nobody will employ you
Of course you can get paid (as a PPL with a FI rating). Flight instruction is one of the (few) things for which you are allowed to get paid as a PPL.
boscomantico wrote:
Of course you can get paid (as a PPL with a FI rating)
I think that w_n was not talking about instruction (where a PPL can definitely be paid) but rather referring to the second part concerning a multi-pilot-PPL-only-operation in a corporate or private plane.
