Silvaire wrote:
Instead of shamelessly coercing or forcing people to inject foreign substances into their bodies without choice,
every hour/day/night situations at the emergency receptions/shock rooms of the hospitals and clinics:
people come in after accidents unconscious in critical conditions.
they get injected with foreign (to them completely unknown) substances to safe their lives.
they have no knowlegde, they are unconscious, they have no choice.
you really think this is shameless?! coerced and forced ?!
and should not be done as a consequence ??!!
but the situation is very diificult in austria at the moment.
Difficult is a nice paraphrase for the totally f****d up crisis management claimed by a 30 something milktoast narcissist…
Tax €uros at work during Summer 2021:
„The pandemic mastered, the crisis fought!“
Yeah right.
And while many have been seeing this coming very clearly and warned of recurring waves, one more terrible than the next, it is obvious that without it actually happening, way too many put their heads in the sand and simply wish it away. Well, it doesn’t work that way.
Head in the sand and wishing is one thing, a head of government placarding the country with his „pandemic victory posters“ really takes the cake.
cpt_om_sky wrote:
we could easily match (some) german stupidity in this.from july this year on we had enough covid vaccines to immunize all the poplutaion (except kids, where it was not medically approved yet).
scientists said, that a new covid wave would be most likely in autumn, early winter.but nothing happened !
i do not know who is more stupid, people who still beliefe they will get chinese chips injected with a covid shot
or the politicians who did simply nothing to motivate (or force ?) people to do it.irresponsibilities to an extent simply shocking !!
Head in the sand and wishing is one thing, a head of government placarding the country with his „pandemic victory posters“ really takes the cake.
A lot of us thought so in last summer. Could we really have predicted that over 30 % of people will willingly refuse to be part of the war effort against the virus and leave us in the situation we are now in? Those who said so were called pessimists, but what is happening now proves them right.
Clearly those posters and the victory shouts were premature and naive. Unfortunately it appears that most of Europe will loose the fight against covid due to its liberal politics and its neurotic and psychotic citizens who absolutely refuse to do their share but instead are cooperating with the enemy which is Covid 19. If you hear of people attacking, spitting at and harassing those waiting to get their vaccinations near vaccination centers e.t.c. then it is brutally clear who is exercising tyranny here. Society has indeed broken down over these issues, but in more than one way I think Covid was merely the catalysor for this to happen than the actual cause. The real cause of this collapse of society has more to do with egoism and a totally false sense of “freedom” which in fact never existed beyond the “right” to have fun on the cost of others.
Responding to a comment above, obviously treating an unconscious individual with drugs to save their life is a completely different risk/benefit and ethical situation than coercing or forcing somebody in good health to take a drug that may improve their life, but may not.
Tomorrow will be the first time I’ve needed to behave in any unusual way as a result of Covid since I was in Europe a couple of months ago. We’ll be flying commercial to Mexico City and that will require masks on the plane. From what I understand the area itself has dropped into what the Mexican government classifies as a Green Zone (as with all but one area of the country) so I’m expecting about the same level of restrictions on normal behavior as at home – which would mean close to zero for my purposes, once out of the airport. Reentering the US will be relatively hassle free too, as we’ll be walking across the border and for US residents nothing special is required. It’ll be interesting to see anyway, I’ve never been there, and for us a better choice than going to Germany as we ordinarily would at around this time of the year.
Having said that, Germany reduced its hassles with entering from the US a few days ago, no multistage online document uploading nonsense or quarantines for some any more. Presumably this was part of the deal with the US allowing Germans to vacation in the US this winter – which I would highly recommend!
Mooney_Driver wrote:
gear was down and flaps still engaged when plan crashed.
no evidence of health issues.
no evidence that autopilot was engaged.
pilot was aware that he was going out 05 (and not 23).Where does this information come from? If it is any and not again “sources close to the investiation” folks who like 4 minutes of fame?
However, it may well coincide with my hunch that this accident has not much if anything to do with the question about IFRin G airspace but is most probably a pretty straight forward loss of control incident where VFR flying was conducted under IMC conditions.
i take justified, well reasoned arguements of criticism very seriously, being part of my job, i give it a lot of thought
and try hard to learn. mistakes and errors are part of human thinking, emotions and actions, to be looked upon also with tolerance and understanding.
and yet: if you have understood a mistake you made, it should not/must not happen again.
Jacobson v. Massachusetts, 197 U.S. 11 (1905)
Just to review the facts on the holding. It was a seven to two majority from 1905. Cambridge, Massachusetts was held to be able to fine residents who refused to get smallpox’s injections. There had been a smallpox epidemic in 1901. In 1902 pastor Hennings Jacobson said he’d been injured by these previous vaccines. They were really dangerous, and he refused to be vaccinated and pay the fine.
And the US Supreme Court in an opinion by Justice John Marshall Harlan rejected his arguements, holding that the good and welfare of the Commonwealth of which the legislature is primarily the judge is the basis on which the police power rests in Massachusetts. This rests, Harlan said, on the principle of self-defense, a paramount necessity. A community has the right to protect itself against an epidemic of disease which threatens the safety of its members. But Harlan did end by saying, we’re not inclined to hold that the statute establishes an absolute rule that an adult must be vaccinated. If it’d be apparent or can be shown with reasonable certainty he was not at the time of fit subject of vaccination or the vaccination by reason of his then condition would seriously impair his health or probably causes death.
…….
Morgan’s Steamship Co. v. Louisiana Board of Health, 118 U.S. 455 (1886)
an earlier directly on point Supreme Court case on state quarantines. Compagnie Francaise de Navigation a Vapeur versus the Board of Health of the state of Louisiana, which is a 1902 Supreme Court case. In that case, the state quarantine power was directly at issue which is that, this is Louisiana, and the Board of Health was establishing quarantines and they were attacked for various grounds.
The State Supreme Court found they were constitutional, and this went up to the US Supreme Court, which then endorsed the state actions. And, in fact referred back to the 1799 Public Health Service Act, which recognized the power of the state and the role of the federal government in supporting the states. The role of the Public Health Service hospitals as part of the quarantine for ships coming in.
So, in this case, we really see the fed, the Supreme Court directly addressing the broad state police powers. Jacobson is the case where the Supreme Court really addresses the core issue in public health law, which is the right of the state to endanger the individual for the benefit of society. The fundamental difference between public health law, and, personal health services law or medical care law is that medical care law is about the individual, and we have informed consent, and we worry about autonomy. And most of the modern scholarship tends to come from that direction. Public health law is about the protection of the state. Sometimes we term it the protection of the herd. and that’s why it is really jurisprudential analogous to national security law"
quotes: us national constitution center
discussion march 19th 2020
It’s a weird world when the so called land of the free spends huge sums of money, conscripts kids and sends them off to die in Korea and Vietnam in the name of protecting liberty and democracy. End up drawing one and losing the other and despise the kids who return home.
Meanwhile along comes a virus that has already killed more citizens than lost their lives in those 2 wars and it hasn’t finished by a long way. Yet here we are a bunch of people complaining that a couple of jabs, wearing a mask, or carrying a health pass is an infringement of their civil liberties and unconstitutional, tyranny even.
Yet this is a fight that we cannot decide “oh its about time we packed it in so we’ll call it a draw for the time being” or “okay you win we ’ll dump our tanks and helicopters and go home”.
A good draw would be to take a vaccine every 6 months, to isolate better when not feeling well, or to wear a mask in some places.
Nobody has an answer for what a loss really means.
For those who talk data there is no doubt that this is going in waves including the deaths.
We have no idea how many will eventually die. People talk about how lockdowns are leading to suicides, depression, mental illness and perhaps it does. But what effect does ambulances stacked up outside hospitals, bodies being left in the streets and dead parents, sons, daughters, friends have on the human psych?
And then there is the concern for a country’s economy. Yes is and will cost, but it will recover. Some will thrive because of it others will have more of a problem and it will take more time. It will be the ingenuity of people who will drive the economic recovery. But they cannot do that until we have learnt to at least live with this virus or find a way of reducing its effectiveness.
In the meantime Governments have to make decisions aimed at stopping health services from becoming overrun by Covid patients, leading to ambulances queuing outside hospitals with patients of all sorts, not just Covid. Patients dying of Covid, cancer, heart problems , or crashing planes. The spiral of deaths will rise exponentially. Any Government will need to be seen to be doing something, even if they are wrong or get accused of tyranny by a minority. In the end they will find that for their political future they are better to clamp down on the minority instead of the majority, especially as the majority are already turning against the minority. The argument that Covid preventative measures are an attack on freedom, does not wash anymore. Some countries or regions will have populations where majority and minority are closer, nearer 50/50.
But how long will that last if the death toll starts to rise again. If it doesn’t Trump and Bolsonaro and Xi will be seen as great leaders. Everyone else will have been proven wrong, but alive.
sends them off to die in … Vietnam
Pot and black, perhaps? This all happened quite recently 
When it comes to spilling blood, Europe was the champion, long before America got into that game
i do not understand why us supreme rulings on mandatory vaccination or states imposed ruling in case of an epidemic
should be off topic and/or political in the general discussion of the covid situation ??!!
