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Electric / hybrid aircraft propulsion (NOT cars)

I miss the noise.

United Kingdom

There appears to be 14 battery trays of about 10-12 litres volume, which would suggest about 80-90 KWh and around 500kg with current technology. Add on inverters and power electronics etc.
They are using batteries from Pipistrel who had about 90KWh in their Taurus G4 GFC winner.

I’d think that would give an hour or so of economy cruise and rather less of competition aerobatics.

Access to 150KW DC charging would give about 40 minutes charge time from min to max charge.

Still a long way from every-day practical, but the specifics could easily double over the next 10-15 years.

The synchronous reluctance motor seems an appealing idea using air rather than copper in the rotor squirrel cage. I guess there are down sides or it would be more widespread in use.

KHWD- Hayward California; EGTN Enstone Oxfordshire, United States

What concerns me as the “elephant in the room” is the 150kW.

In the UK the most you can get on single phase is about 80A. That is what I have at home (a 100A main fuse). That’s 18.4kW, or more like 17kW by the time the voltage has dropped because you are drawing 80A…

I hear from a German pilot who bought the BMW I-3 is that in Germany the max single phase supply current is even smaller.

On 3 phase you can get anything you want but very few flying school type establishments will have supplies that big. It comes to 220A which is a pretty thick wire. The diameter will depend on how far it needs to run but at 220V it is around 10-15mm diameter (per phase).

So good luck getting that delivered to your local airfield, which like most of them is probably in the middle of nowhere.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Peter wrote:

So good luck getting that delivered to your local airfield, which like most of them is probably in the middle of nowhere.

In that case it would be easier and cheaper to install some solar arrays on the hangar roof which keep a large battery charged from which the aircraft are fed. You need to live in a part of the world which has some sun of course.

The article and data sheet of that Extra demonstrator give a flying time of 20 minutes which includes 5 minutes under full power. The article also states that this programme is not aiming at electrically driven aircraft, but on hybrid propulsion, which makes a lot more sense with today’s battery technology.

EDDS - Stuttgart

I don’t see that as an “elephant in the room”. Mr Musk has succeeded in delivering hundreds of said outlets around the US and Europe (to a lesser extent) and commercial EV charging stations will soon follow suit.

It’s not an insignificant investment, but a lot less than the costs of installing and approving an airfield fuel farm.

KHWD- Hayward California; EGTN Enstone Oxfordshire, United States

Peter wrote:

So good luck getting that delivered to your local airfield, which like most of them is probably in the middle of nowhere.

At the countryside house in portugal we get 3 Phased (had it for over 20 years (before that too young to remember)), but have to admit I know little about the london situation, living in central London (and mostly, not needing it).

A lot of airfields do have industrial zones (in it or next to it) so that shouldn’t be too hard. Not sure if maintenance shops use 3 phased but if they have industrial machinery it’s rather likely, no?)

As to battery degradation, our two electric cars have shown zero in 2 years (40.000 km) of use. Maybe because we drive carefully and don’t stress them too much in this mild climate over here, but I haven’t heard of any (dramatic) degradation in cars of fellow users.

As to weight: look how the power-to-weight ratio keeps on improving every year based on existing Li-ion technology, let alone some new funky stuff that will undoubtedly hit the streets over the next decade or so.

The reliability of an electric power train in an aircraft must be unmatched, assuming redundant power electronics and a properly functioning battery pack (as one would assume non-leaking fuel tanks). Also nice to know that if you crash, you don’t have a load of fuel crashing alongside you.

Noise is also an increasing factor, in Europe at least. Lower in-cockpit noise levels are always welcome, but maybe the improvements there are not that significant, as the prop still dominates..

The only thing that a seller of an electric aircraft would really have to convince me of is that the risk that the battery catches fire during flight is virtually zero..

Yes, long range practical travel is years away, but we’ll get there, helped by improving batteries and improving solar panels. As to these panels, just make sure you plan to fly on top

Private field, Mallorca, Spain

3 phase is everywhere – it is used down to street level in cities too. I have even stayed in an old house in rural France (near St Yan) which had 3 phase power sockets – apparently this used to be standard in France. A very elegant technical solution

The problem is the power required. In the countryside, where most airfields are, it would have to come in via a 11kV or 33kV supply, and that is really expensive.

OTOH, getting avgas involves getting a bowser and parking it there. Most people do this in preference to a fixed tank which is a load more paperwork. The point is that the airfield is doing this already.

Look at how TOTAL has failed miserably with their 91UL. Airfields don’t want to split their investment. Any novel solution must deliver something which is really big if it is to be adopted.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Noe wrote:

At the countryside house in portugal we get 3 Phased

Where I live at the border of a small town in Germany, we also have 3 phased current. But since we are the last house connected by a cable which is over 5km long, we can only get 10kW out of all three phases together… I can’t even think about purchasing an electroical car. And for the cost of replacing those cables, I can install my own solar or wind driven powerplant.

Last Edited by what_next at 07 Jul 16:49
EDDS - Stuttgart

.what_next wrote:

I can’t even think about purchasing an electroical car. And for the cost of replacing those cables, I can install my own solar or wind driven powerplant.

My cars are charged through a normal single-phase 220V socket, eating 8A, charged in 9 hours for a 160 km range.
Actually, that is when I need to charge overnight. During daytime it’s all solar panels doing the job.

And built in Germany, so no excuses WN You are going to get one, and change WN into THAT’S NEXT

Last Edited by aart at 07 Jul 17:48
Private field, Mallorca, Spain
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