DOH!
Just saying that if you get into gas turbines it can be mega costly…
An associate took his Jetranger in for service and they said the turbine blades had corrosion and guess what £100k unexpected bill….
An engine fund can be the way forwards…
BTW. is ‘Shagged’ an official EASA approved technical word??
Remember seeing the ad’s for this film on billboards in the USA and when I explained to the locals what it actually meant they were mortified :)
My PT6A-42A goes rapidly to about 700 degrees when you add fuel but then slows as it gets to 800 usually peaking at about 810 depending on wind, temp and how charged the battery is. Redline is 950. You have plenty of time to cut the fuel of needed. A hot start is serious but quite avoidable and they just aren’t on the brink of a hot start at all times. And if you do, well that is what insurance is for. Corrosion etc is also often down to management – get turbine washes regularly particularly if you have been near salt water. Make sure your nozzles are working well to prevent hot spots. Much easier to maintain and run than a piston.
I know they are expensive but this terror of turbines is misplaced.
PT6A sounds like a good piece of kit, do any of the aircraft flying with this have FADEC?
On FADEC, no, but you only have one lever to worry about other than the condition lever which controls fuel on off and the prop feather.
Downside of this engine compared with the Jetprop and its -35A is it is a medium series engine vs the small of the Jetprop which does mean it consumes more fuel. The other major engine difference is the Jetprop has a pilot selectable inertial separator vs the Meridian’s permanent IS. This is what allows the Jetprop to generate much more power at low altitude but also means more to do in icing conditions. The Meridian engine performs better at very high altitudes.
The engine in the Meridian is operating on a very derated basis. 500shp vs running at 850 in a King Air. This must also contribute to longevity. I think turbines in helicopters are much smaller and running hard.
quite a thread drift….
not many people can ever think of going turboprop and those who do will have less immediate problems which can stop them flying… someone who can cough up for a turboprop is more likely to also digest the costs of one than the “normal” off the street private pilot who will struggle with a PA28.
I think cost is one of the major aspects of it all. Lots of people have found themselfs overwhelmed with fuel, maintenance and upgrade costs. And while for some time even reaching TBO and needing an engine rebuild meant the end for some, today it has more to do with the ever new avionic and navigation requirements, which make IFR particularly expensive. A plane which a few years ago was perfectly ok for IFR might need upgrades now which exceed the financial capabilities and hull values of most GA airplanes.
We should therefore also be careful to point out the most economical ways of coping with that, their limitations nonwithstanding. And we should try to avoid going overboard with requirements, EASA does that for us anyhow. If I hear in this forum things like "there is no IFR without turbo/double GTNs/G1000/500 e.t.c " that is simply not true. IFR is still very much possible using a vantage GNS430 or similar box in addition to the normal equipment.
Likewise, I hear a lot of people being dissuaded from buying a perfectly sound airplane which has maybe 500 hours left to TBO, on the grounds that “you’ll immediately have to overhaul that engine as you don’t know it’s state” or similar things. If an airplane has been properly maintained, if a true and skillfully done Pre Buy has been done and nothing found, there is no need to prematurely rip out the engine or to make a total make over of the whole airplane which then makes any acquisition unachievable. One guy I tried to help buying a plane got his head talked off by the local “experts” into believing he had to spend more than 200k on a perfectly sound airframe which was pure garbage. When I managed to get some sane and knowledgable guy to look at it he concluded that all that was really necessary was a worth about 5 k in maintenance and for about 10k he could get a GNS430 installed to replace the outdated older GPS and fulfill the 8.33 requirement. But the prospective buyer was spooked enough to let a very good offer go.
These are things we need to be careful, not to let “pilot porn” and what we wish to get in the way of what’s really needed. A “light” IFR airframe does not have to cost 200k, you can find IFR capable travel machines for less than 50k in todays marketplace. And you don’t need the latest gizmos immediately, nor do we need to exceed the anyway gold plated requirements the regulators throw our way.
A “light” IFR airframe does not have to cost 200k, you can find IFR capable travel machines for less than 50k in todays marketplace.
The best examples being the typical training aircraft. If I look at the fleet of my FTO (not mine of course, but I instruct on these), they all fall into that category. Built in the nineteen-seventies to eighties, some flying on their fifth engine and with engine one to four pushed to maximum possible TBO extension, so well over 10,000h total time. All with their original factory installed instruments and avionics apart from a GNS430 and a mode S transponder to be allowed under IFR in our part of the world. Some even with their original paint and interior or what’s left of it. If you share a plane like that in a small group of maybe three owners and keep it at a small airfield, you can almost fly for the price of the fuel. And still be able to take it for a trip every third weekend and always get home at night and in bad weather, thunderstorms, icing and CAT II conditions apart. But of course, you won’t be able impress anyone with it…
Likewise, I hear a lot of people being dissuaded from buying a perfectly sound airplane which has maybe 500 hours left to TBO,…
That’s a dificult one because it much depends who has owned it before – and how many owners over what period. Some engines don’t make their TBO for not flying enough or being forgotten in the back of their hangar for a couple of years. Others for having flown too much. Over the years I have met quite a few owners and pilots who tried to keep their maintenance cost low by “forgetting” to log every third flight or by logging a 2:30 flight as 1:30 or by making some silly “mistakes” on every second page when summing up the hours in their tech logs. So if on paper it has 500 hours to go, in reality it could be 500 hours over TBO already.
I know what you mean, what next.
I had a discussion on that subject a few years ago with some people who were all totally convinced that private planes out of reach of the “common man”. I got a bit carried away and told them I could find them a flyable and affordable airplane for less than 10k Euros they could go, buy and fly with just the 50/100 hour checks. VFR day/night and to the current state.
Well, it took me two weeks to locate a PA28-140, mid time engine, new avionics (COM/NAV/XPDR) with a 1500 hrs engine, fresh prop and in generally sound condition for €7000.-
Went to look at it, the tech data, maintenance records, all added up that it’s a buy and fly plane, it would need a new transpoder (S) which I knew to cost €1100 slide in without rewiring. All AD’s up to date, all SB’s complied with and it could relatively easily get a MOGAS STC.
The result was that from the several folks involved, some went for “advice” at their local airports and were never talking owning again, they had gotten their talking to by the local armchair crowd who told them they’d be ruined in 2 days flat and a plane like that MUST be garbage e.t.c.
In the end, I sat together with 2 people who came to see it and were anxious and scared of the horror stories they were told. A guy next table overheard us…. and bought the plane the next day.
One of the two remaining guys now owns his own Archer.
Even if I look into plancheck now, I can find a few planes which are announced under 15k Euros which would make lovely first planes for someone with a fresh license. Up it to 20k and you have the choice.
300 hours remaining on an engine which has been taken care of and VERIFIED to be in good condition is plenty for most newcomers to fly 4-6 years with given the on-condition tolerances they get. 6 years is a long time to amass a fund to revise an O200/235 or 320, even a 360.
So what if it has stone age avionics, therefore the price is cheap. To add a Mode S transponder is not a big deal, equally if necessary to add a 8.33 radio, the rest of the old stuff mostly works.
Take this one for example.
Add the Trigg TT31 slide in replacement for the KT76a, use your Ipad or put the existing Garmin Area 500 or 496 into the panel with an air gizmo mount and fly. And get the Mogas STC…
These are not airplanes which need a millionaire but they are great fun and can last for years. And with this investment, you can reasonably expect to get the buying price back some day.
Or if you are looking for a “blank canvas” for cheap:
Ok, so it’s got 108 hours left to TBO, no Mode S and broken Nav and ADF.
Keep the SL40, throw out the rest of the avionic, install a TT31 Transponder will cost about 1 k. Add a VFR portable GPS of your choice with an Air Gizmo Mount and go fly for 7000 Euros. Or get a 2nd hand GNS430 if you want VOR and 8.33 and get flying for 12 k.
With on condition, the engine can fly to maybe 2400 hours, that is 500 hours from now, then it will cost around 12k to overhaul. The fixed pitch prop should be able to be done for about 1k if necessary.
If you want to recover the seats, add maybe another 1000 Euros.
These are just two spam cans with loads of fun potential, inexpensive to fly with 20-25 lph Mogas and, in the case of the PA28, with about 600 NM range, reasonable performance and the ideal traveller for 2.
Or the ideal 100$ hamburger flyer in case of the AA1.
Lots of people can afford these, also running them. And there are worlds between those and a 200k Cirrus.
This thread has morphed into another one about why do most people give up, which is fine 
Yes one can get into a basic plane quite cheaply.
But there are some issues which not everybody appreciates. Most people posting here are seasoned aviation anoraks who know the game, can buy a 100 year old PA28 and rebuild it as necessary. Higher up, with what I now know, I could buy a TB20 for €40k and either fly it as it is (accepting that half of it is shagged and, ahem, better not look closely at the AD compliance) or spend a year and 100k doing it up (largely pointless since for 140k you can buy a TB20GT with everything working and it would be a better plane anyway). But the new PPL holder won’t know any of this. He has just dropped off the back end of the PPL sausage machine, having been fed stuff by his instructors about “it’s a good idea to rent for a few years so you can work out what you really want to fly” (no commercial incentive there, yeah right) and even if he gets clued-up and realises that a syndicate is the best way to go (for anybody who cannot afford to buy a plane outright) it is quite difficult to find enough partners who one gets one with and who come up with the money, etc. I’ve been there myself.
The other thing is that – IMHO – a large chunk of the decline in GA is the lack of a social scene. There is a huge amount of money around (stand next to any big road and count the €100k cars) but the people who have it are very strategic where they spend it. Single men with time are not going to be spending it in GA 
And single women are not likely to be revolving around in the typical GA scene, either Somewhere I have a hilarious story about 2 female pilots landing in Spain and the airport manager angrily searching their plane looking for the pilot… And the rest probably don’t have much time to socialise. If we had healthy flying clubs (I mean clubs, not schools pretending to be clubs) then a lot more would be going on because they would be interesting places to go to, and people would choose to spend time there. BUT we also need modern planes, not the current scene where most planes would not look out of place if pictured with Hermann Goering getting out of one of them, and that is probably literally true. The state of most of GA hardware currently flying is a massive turnoff for all but the dedicated anoraks. And there is no easy solution. A successful club needs decent aircraft, plus somebody who is paid to run the place, organise trips, and basically hold everybody’s hand.
Just my opinion
I do think that “going places” delivers a huge amount of value in GA (it is the reason why I learnt to fly) but it is difficult to do at the bottom end of the hardware scale. Hence we have that end of GA dominated by €100 burger run activity.
