Menu Sign In Contact FAQ
Banner
Welcome to our forums

Mysteries of Eurocontrol

I guess you are keen on flying IFR, even in good weather, but you will soon see that often, there is just no point.

In this case:

  • Losinj is usually VFR-only anyway
  • enroute, there is no class A, so VFR is essentially the same as IFR
  • while IFR into Cannes is possible, it will just mean more trackmiles and more hassle, due to COHOR, etc.
Mainz (EDFZ) & Egelsbach (EDFE), Germany

enroute, there is no class A, so VFR is essentially the same as IFR

VFR above FL115 is banned in much of E France, which can force you to sit in IMC when “VFR”, collecting ice. In IMC you likely get ice anywhere in Europe anytime of the year.

while IFR into Cannes is possible

Cannes is hard work, presumably due to funny stuff happening at Nice.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

VFR above FL115 is banned in much of E France

Not relevant here.

Mainz (EDFZ) & Egelsbach (EDFE), Germany

I guess you are keen on flying IFR

It’s more that I’m not keen on flying VFR. You have to understand every country’s bizarre tweaks and sillinesses. I can just about manage France but this involves Italy, maybe Slovenia and Croatia also. I have no idea where I’d even look to figure those out. I know that the whole of Croatia is a maze of restricted areas down to 1000 feet. MAYBE it’s negotiable, but who knows?

Losinj is usually VFR-only anyway

Not sure what you mean by that – it has a perfectly fine approach, it even has a DME arc. Though my idea was to cancel or request a visual approach rather than flying semicircles over the Adriatic.

Cannes is hard work, presumably due to funny stuff happening at Nice

I guess that’e the reason. I have a COHOR slot both ways. Nobody seems to know what COHOR is actually for, probably for the amusement of some Enarque in Paris. But it is what it is.

LFMD, France

This validates. Just file and fly whatever FL you need.

DCT PUL L614 CHI M859 LUPOS/N0270F110 M859 LAGEN/N0270F130 Q712 ENOBA Z185 BORDI DCT

As Bosco says, the weather will most likely be good enough to fly it VFR DCT

LFMD - Cannes Mandelieu, EGLL - London Heathrow, France

Sure, but when they say “climb and maintain FL140”, what do I do? Say “unable”? “Cancel IFR”? Better imo to file something that I COULD fly even if I don’t want to.

Also, Foreflight will no longer give me even a vaguely sensible route! It now wants me to overfly Elba. Autorouter still has the reasonable route further north, but I guess that means entering it all by hand. And even then, who knows whether it won’t validate because of some obscure undocumented Eurocontrol silliness?

Honestly this is all just SO painful compared to flying in the US. Anyone want to buy a late-model TB20 with really nice avionics?

LFMD, France

Low level routes are available but only via ELB. the base of controlled airspace around Genoa is FL125 so they will try to push you up at LAGEN. I would, as you suggest, cancel IFR at that point.

LFMD - Cannes Mandelieu, EGLL - London Heathrow, France

LFMD N0152F100 BASIP9K BASIP Y15 ABN Z388 IXITO/N0152F110 Z388 CHI L614 LABIN/N0152F080 L614 PUL/N0150F080 PUL3C LDLO

LDLO N0152F100 PUL3F PUL L614 CHI M859 LUPOS/N0152F110 M859 EKPAL Z388 OTMUV M858 TORTU A9 AKUTI R16 KERIT KERIT2V LFMD

You should get a shortcut on the 2nd one.

Why not FL140? Do you not have oxygen? Without oxygen, you cannot get above much wx – Europe or USA.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

More on why not VFR: I managed to find my Air Million VFR map of Italy and points east. To fly VFR to LDLO I would have to fly miles offshore at 2000 feet around Genoa (which has a CTR bigger than LHR’s for its 5 flights a day). Then to cross around Bologna is pretty much impossible unless you like getting intimate with the Apennines. Etc. MAYBE all this is negotiable but unless you’ve done it before you have no idea. Which is exactly my point. At least with IFR, you do what they tell you, it may make little sense but at least you know what to do.

You should get a shortcut on the 2nd one.

So I would hope, but there are plenty of comments to the effect that you will never get Direct across a national boundary. So I wouldn;‘t be optimistic. And if you cancekl IFR off the Italian coast, see previous remark: you have to be below 2000’, miles off the Italian coast.

Why not FL140? Do you not have oxygen?

No. I’ve thought about it, but it’s expensive and complex to maintain. My 182 had it, I used it about twice, for crossing the Rockies.

LFMD, France

That is a fitted O2 system. A TB21 comes with that, like most turbo planes. A TB20 doesn’t. You use a portable kit. See the Mountain High system at the end of here. There is negligible maintenance. One cannot practically do IFR in Europe without oxygen (yes I know one can in Sweden ) due to available MEAs, and of course wx.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom
Sign in to add your message

Back to Top