Indeed, Belgium now does a “centralised C&I system” for GA flights but it still keep the mess of old “AD C&I system”, this is unlike:
- UK you need to submit GAR: landing CJ in City or PA28 in Biggin (has permanent customs)
- US you need to submit APIS: landing at JFK (has permanent customs)
But at least you don’t need to bother with “AD C&I” 
Check Belgian GEN1.2, 1.1.4 Submission of the General Declaration to Belgian Air Border Guards, AFAIK, it has nothing to do with AD PPR & AD GENDEC but puzzled one still needs both…
https://www.police.be/bordercontrol/en/general-declaration
The fine goes from two hundred euro to four million euro, jeez even my soul is not worth that much
Ibra wrote:
Check Belgian GEN1.2, 1.1.4 Submission of the General Declaration to Belgian Air Border Guards, AFAIK, it has nothing to do with AD PPR & AD GENDEC but puzzled one still needs both…
I did submit the Gendec, it’s the customs bit that puzzles me….
Ah my bad, you mean the GENDEC multi-colour papers you need to fill and carry with you and hand in copies to customs officer, health officer, planning officer and keep one copy for you (e.g. Netherlands, Spain, Morocco…maybe Greece?) now needs to get submitted by email to some unknown address
Most of the time forwarding “UK GAR as-is” does the job but funnily enough anytime I bring one printed from Carl’s website, I get asked to rewrite it by hand in a different template or paper…
Ibra wrote:
Ah my bad, you mean the GENDEC multi-colour papers you need to fill and carry with you and hand in copies to customs officer, health officer, planning officer and keep one copy for you (e.g. Netherlands, Spain, Morocco also Greece?) now needs to get submitted by email to some unknown address
There is a Federal Police website for it, works well and you get confirmation. Apparently you need a separate one to give customs (not immigration) PNR
And which website is sufficient to comply with Belgium customs regulations? Where do we find official information?
Were customs (not immigration police) around when the aircraft landed? or they did not turn up and now the whole world is upside/down as they figure out weeks later that the flight was from UK which is now outside EU customs territory?
Ibra wrote:
Were customs (not immigration police) around when the aircraft landed? or they did not turn up and now the whole world is upside/down as they figure out weeks later that the flight was from UK which is now outside EU customs territory?
I arrived from my home-base in France, spend some time with my family in Antwerp and travelled on to the UK on Monday – everything is in their database as you now need to file 10 different arrival reports…
Frans wrote:
nd which website is sufficient to comply with Belgium customs regulations? Where do we find official information?
Well Frans, and to do a little bit more ’’slagging off of ones own country (I wonder why I ever left Belgium ;-)) I got this little quote of magic back from Belgian Customs today ;-)
Dear Mr. …,
Thank you for your message, now I know that Mr … is not involved. I understand that you have already submitted the general statement to the aviation police and that you have made the necessary efforts to comply with the required formalities.
However, the general declaration for each country that does not belong to the EU must be submitted to customs (and not to the aviation police or other service).
It is not the responsibility of the aviation police or airport staff to communicate the customs obligations, although I hope of course that they do the best they can to help everyone with their knowledge. It is your responsibility to deliver the general declaration to the customs authorities.
The general declaration is mandatory for all flight movements inbound and outbound and also for “empty” aircraft.
This is a legal obligation based on Art. 133 UCC (Union Customs Code) and Art. 24 (in conjunction with art. 8) of the General Act on Customs and Excise.
Art 133 UCC: The operator of a seagoing vessel or aircraft entering the customs territory of the Union shall notify the arrival to the customs office of first entry upon arrival of the means of transport.
art. 24 AWDA: § 1. All skippers are held, within 24 hours of their arrival [1 at the first office]1, [1 …]1 their general declaration, to the appropriate officials, with display [1 of their] 1 to submit ship and cargo papers before being allowed to continue sailing.
It is therefore your responsibility that the general declaration is delivered to the customs authorities as described in the above articles.
General statements can also always be submitted electronically by e-mail to [email protected]
You will therefore receive an amicable settlement within 2 weeks to settle this violation (a fine of 125 euros).
With best regards,
And sorry edited for completeness but the EBAW AIP states this for Customs and Immigration
2.3 Customs and Immigration Mon-Fri (Hol excl) 07.00 -11.00 (06.00 -10.00) and 11-30 – 17.00. No mention of additional PNR (PPR).
LFHNflightstudent wrote:
The general declaration is mandatory for all flight movements inbound and outbound and also for “empty” aircraft.
This is a legal obligation based on Art. 133 UCC (Union Customs Code) and Art. 24 (in conjunction with art. 8) of the General Act on Customs and Excise.
It seems they have a slight issue reading the texts. Article 133 is for inbound.
Sadly that doesn’t solve the issue here as there is also an Article for outbound: Art 263:
Goods to be taken out of the customs territory of the Union shall be covered by a pre-departure declaration to be lodged at the competent customs office within a specific time-limit before the goods are taken out of the customs territory of the Union.
Xtophe wrote:
Sadly that doesn’t solve the issue here as there is also an Article for outbound: Art 263:
The saga continues, though I suspect fighting this much more really isn’t worth it. I really find the AIP and the customs stance on this very unclear, as is stated in the reply, I certainly have not been the only one ’’tricked’’ into this by believing the Federal Police’s website around the declaration treating both customs and immigration.
Dear Mr. …,
Thank you for your message. Personally, I do not find the arrangement for the general declaration user-friendly either, since you are certainly not the only one who has submitted the general declaration to the airspace police instead of to customs themselves. I had therefore discussed your situation with a colleague as I was (and am) of the opinion that it has been submitted to the police and that a check was carried out (and so you have made every effort to be in order). If it were up to me, I wouldn’t have fined you for this.
However, I also just do my job and have to apply the law correctly, and the law simply says that the general declaration must be submitted to customs. I certainly don’t deliberately mislead people into collecting fines, I personally find it sad that such fines are imposed for many small things in which people can easily mistake, but the law is the law (how unfair it sometimes is). also is…).
The articles that apply to your flight from Belgium to the UK are Articles 263 UCC (Union Customs Code) and Article 73 (joint art. 8) of the General Customs and Excise Act (I had thought the opposite for a moment, namely from the UK to Belgium).
Article 263 UCC: declaration before departure
Goods leaving the customs territory of the Union are accompanied by a pre-departure declaration lodged at the competent customs office within a specified time before the goods are released from the customs territory of the Union.
Article 73 AWDA:
Except in cases determined by the Minister of Finance, a general declaration [1 at exit]1 must be lodged at the customs office where the cargo declarations were presented.
I will therefore have to offer you an amicable settlement, in which case you can also submit a written objection to our disputes department of the customs & excise duties (this must be done within 10 days of receipt of the amicable settlement). The information about submitting an objection will also be on the amicable settlement itself.
With best regards,
So anyone travelling from the UK to Belgium and vice-versa better be aware 2 separate general declarations, 1 for customs and 1 for border patrol…
