Can’t they declare the airfield shut though? (Assuming the owner/operator has delegated that authority to them)
AFIS/AG can’t refuse landing because “weather is bad”, yes they can close airfield if “surface is unfit” or no landing “without prior permission” (of course in emergency, one can land regardless)
Not sure about the rules for ATC when RVR/ATIS is busted by PIC for IFR? but I heard they just wash their hands with “check your minima, clear to land/takeoff at your discretion” (for VFR, they do enforce weather on airspace & aerodrome clearances)
PS: in US, I recall when FortLauderdale KFXE was restricted due to weather, ATC first kicked every VFR away, then every “non-WX radar IFR” traffic away, then they were taking names & endurances & alternates before shutting down all runways when few big CBs were sitting on them, I was waiting for my turn in good VFR with +4h fuel endurance then I got sequenced on 30nm downwind & 30nm final as they opened back for traffic, I overflew my alternate twice 
Ibra wrote:
AFIS/AG can’t refuse landing/takeoff due to weather conditions (it’s clearly written in ANO/AIP)
Can’t they declare the airfield shut though? (Assuming the owner/operator has delegated that authority to them)
Emir wrote:
Self cancel is the only option for canceling IFR, nobody can do that instead of PIC. Nobody has questioned that yet.
Haha that is true, at least we have something !
Strictly speaking, you can’t cancel IFR in Class A TMA/CTA in any weather conditions and you can’t cancel IFR in IMC while inside controlled airspace
Elsewhere, calling it VFR does entitles you to deviate from IFR paths & heights,
- Say low visual circuit instead of instrument circling (welcome to circling/circuit topics)
- Say low visual cruise in VMC at VFR heights instead of IFR heights
If you are IFR outside controlled airspace and aerodrome, you don’t even have to say it on radio to anyone, not even AFIS or other pilots…
Cancelling while on IFR lost comms will cause load of ATC disappointment
The real question, can you cancel and pick it again in your head without telling anyone? I am sure the answer is YES outside controlled airspace & aerodromes
Strictly speaking, the only thing that automatically cancels your IFR without your consent is the decent in cruise bellow IFR MSA in IMC away from takeoff/landing (I had engine failure while IFR in easy weather, ATC did actually say that and I repeated after them before going down to some grass field beneath, I would loved to get that recording )
Snoopy wrote:
Could one “self cancel” IFR shortly before such field?
Self cancel is the only option for canceling IFR, nobody can do that instead of PIC. Nobody has questioned that yet.
The answer is obviously totally country and airfield dependent, and this is much bigger than trying to read EASA differences.
A “VFR only” airfield, if talking practically, is one at which only VFR ops are permitted, which is basically 1500ft min vis, and a cloudbase consistent with the ability to fly to/from it under VFR which probably means a 500ft AGL cloudbase.
That’s assuming nobody is controlling. Class D airports generally have a 1500ft min cloudbase for VFR ops. Class G, it varies…
And EASA doesn’t do a lot of “ground legislation”; that is mostly national or local.
An alternative view is one to which an IFR flight plan cannot be filed. This varies around Europe. Two exceptions I know of are Germany and potentially Croatia; in Croatia you cannot file an “I” flight plan to an airfield with IAPs if the tower is unmanned.
The exact definition when a VFR departure is complete after take off, and when at the earliest time one could “self join” IFR probably doesn’t exist.
Indeed.
Peter wrote:
Shall I rename the thread title “no UK discussion”?
No need. We simply need to keep the rules apart so that there is no misunderstanding.
The much more interesting part is in any case why there are differences in rules WITHIN EASA, as that is not supposed to be so but obviously is.
Shall I rename the thread title “no UK discussion”?
That would be bizzare, but you can have it if you want.
Peter wrote:
It can help to highlight bizzare edge cases which are legal in the UK but otherwise get debated for ever elsewhere
It is not helpful to discuss EASA Regulation, as the UK no longer is part of EASA and therefore what is possible in the UK, or the US for that matter or Kirgistan if you want, has no impact on an incident which is under EASA jurisdiction.
If something was legal in France or Greece which is considered illegal in Germany, then we have a conflict of interpretation under EASA.
arj1 wrote:
So in Sweden and UK I can literally land in my backyard (if it is large enough) and no NAA, City or neighbour can prevent me doing so?
In the UK – yes, you are only limited on 28 days of operation per year – it becomes more complicated after that in terms of planning permission, but not aviation safety.
An important point to note is that the 28 day rule is nothing to do with aviation regulation, the CAA, or anything like that. It is simply part of what we call the ‘planning system’ which regulates use of land and classifies it according to permitted use, e.g. residential, commercial, agricultural, etc. with many sub-categories and intricate rules about what you can and cannot do within a certain category. For instance, my garden is well-suited to building a couple of houses and selling them – making me rich enough to buy a very nice aeroplane – but I would never get planning permission for it.
The 28 day rule on aviation is something designed to allow occasional use – so as to give a landowner the benefit of practical use of their land – without giving them carte blanche to set up a flying school and have 300 movements per day. It’s quite a sensible system.
In practical terms the 28 day rule only really matters if someone local knows the rules and is keeping an eye on you, counting your movements. If no-one noticed a particular movement on a particular day, then did it even happen and who’s going to add it to the total? No-one is counting unless someone decides to, and you don’t have to register your intent to operate under the rule or anything like that. Finally, if you’re caught breaching the rule the CAA won’t be the slightest bit interested. It’s purely a planning matter and it’s the local council who’ll be on your back.
whatever goes in the UK is irrelevant to this discussion.
It can help to highlight bizzare edge cases which are legal in the UK but otherwise get debated for ever elsewhere
