MattL wrote:
Car dealing is going to change dramatically – the new model is looking like franchised dealers will be front end sales room but cars will be supplied direct from manufacturer
Looks like the same way Tesla is doing it.
LeSving wrote:
Well, the Model 3 has been one of the most sold car model the last 1-2 years.
In Norway – absolutely! That is exactly what I meant by the combination of high subsidies and category exclusive. There simply has not been any meaningful competition to the Model 3. Now that there is ID.3 from VW and some others, I’ve heard that even in Norway the Teslas are no longer the best sellers,
In the grand scheme of things, European and Us car buyers are very different. US cars are a niche in Europe as European Cars are a niche in the US. Part of that is obviously transportation cost and customs but the more important part is that the customer buying factors are different in both regions.
Some people think that this is changing and the consumer expectations get more similar – but let’s see. I guess everyone in the industry is curiously looking at how the Corvette C8 sells in the US – with it’s middle motor much more a “European Car” than any Corvette before…
LeSving wrote:
Looks like the same way Tesla is doing it.
Yes – but again, it’s hard to judge market trends by Tesla which was category exclusive for a long time. At least some people these days seem to prefer Audi’s eTRON over Tesla because it has local sales and service…
Malibuflyer wrote:
I’ve heard that even in Norway the Teslas are no longer the best sellers,
Had to google this. Turns out Audi e-Tron is the most sold model last year.
However, as far as car brand go, VW is comfortably at the top.
I must say the e-Tron surprises me. I guess it is the entire Tesla S/X crowd suddenly finding themselves a new toy 
LeSving wrote:
I must say the e-Tron surprises me. I guess it is the entire Tesla S/X crowd suddenly finding themselves a new toy
Although I like the eTRON (drive one myself) I guess these numbers have to be taken with a grain of salt: It has been the first full year of eTRON sales. Many people (including myself) liked the idea of an all electric SUV but for various reasons did not buy a model X (built quality, distance to the next service center, general impression of TESLA, etc.). Many of those actually waited to finally buy an “all electric Audi”.
We’ll actually only see over the next 3 years as we now have meaningful competition in all categories how attractive Tesla is versus European brand for European buyers.
This will certainly be interesting.
Tesla’s market innovation was building an expensive EV at the higher end of the market and to invest in managing large capacity batteries to give them good range, while everybody else was thinking the future was drivable roller-skates for the eco warrior and hair-shirt community or, at best, EV models at the low end of the range. (Ok, that is an exaggeration, but not too far from the truth)
So people with expensive tastes and money had nowhere else to go, and the mid-market was constrained by cost and other than in places with heavy subsidies or very low electricity cost are still quite rare.
So even a year ago, when I was looking for a higher end EV, Tesla was still with little competition. Mercedes had the EQC (hardly a match for the Model X, and at that point vapourware, couldn’t get a test drive in 6 months after launch as they simply could not build them even in the low volumes planned), the Porsche Taycan was brand new and perhaps half a year away from getting one delivered as well as perhaps a bit extreme, everybody else had stuff that wasn’t quite there yet.
While that of course applies to my tastes, people who were used to certain brands or characteristics similarly did not have a good choice – certainly compared to ICE cars.
While this changed slowy in 2020, most classic manufacturers have new ranges coming up, and there will be more and more competition, and by 2025 there will be a good used EV market developing as well.
Tesla needs to watch out. The over-hyped autopilot will not keep it differentiated enough from the competition, which presumably will offer better build quality (hard to do worse) and allow people to compromise less on what they really want to drive.
I put my personal likelihood of buying another EV at 100 percent, but it being a Tesla is a lot less likely, probably not – not because I don’t like it, it is a good car, just not great, there are lots of models wit ICE I would rather drive and if similar comes to the market as EV, bye-bye!
when buying a high-end EV, a year agoCobalt wrote:
Tesla’s market innovation was building an expensive EV at the higher end of the market and to invest in managing large capacity batteries to give them good range, while everybody else was thinking the future was drivable roller-skates for the eco warrior and hair-shirt community or, at best, EV models at the low end of the range. (Ok, that is an exaggeration, but not too far from the truth)
Tesla is born at a time when the only way to compete with fossil cars was brute electric force like nothing a combustion engine can cope with, at least not while also make it a practical car. Then they have (had) their fast charger system with free charging. On top of that, tons and tons of hype. When it comes down to it, a car is after all a equipment of utility for 90% of the people, but it’s easy to get carried away with the hype. Nobody buys Tesla S/X anymore, at least not here in Norway, when only a few years ago it was among the top sellers of electric cars at least, only beaten by Nissan Leaf. The eTron is a much better car (nothing I would even consider using huge amount of money on, but still )
Also this self driving hype bubble is broken. It is obvious for most people now that it works to some degree on wide open autobahns, but ask a Tesla to self drive outside the main roads when the roads are white with snow. In a 100 years maybe. Then the Model X. Try opening the rear doors in the winter. It doesn’t work. In that respect the eTron is what the Model X should have been, but never was, and never will be. People want cars that augment the driving. Cars that make driving easier, more comfortable, they don’t want cars that take over the driving, because it doesn’t work. The Model 3 is designed with self driving, self everything in mind, it’s just that nothing of it works. Others, every single other brand, have this driver augmentation philosophy. Next year, the Model 3 will be off the list entirely. VW will be at the top with ID3 (if they manage to fix all the problems) and ID4, as well as Skoda with their Enyaq.
I read that Alexa had refused to play the Pogues “Fairy Tale of New York”, regarding it as offensive.
Will your “Self Driving Car” refuse to go to some places, or at some times? It seems a possible way to get control over us rabble.
Come to think of it. This eTron as the most sold car in Norway is odd in several ways. For the feinschmeckers in new cool electric auto, there is only one car atm: Polestar 2.
LeSving wrote:
Looks like the same way Tesla is doing it.
Except a Tesla is not a car, it’s a toy ;-) – okay I’ll leave now ;-) as much as I hate to admit it, Tesla is now the most valuable car maker worth. Ore than any other manufacturer…
Maoraigh wrote:
I read that Alexa had refused to play the Pogues “Fairy Tale of New York”, regarding it as offensive.
Maybe it just has taste, and knows how massively overplayed that song is to the point it’s annoying poor Alexa, too. Perhaps it can also refuse to play Paul McCartney’s “Simply having a wonderful Christmas time” (and would you believe, someone made a cover version of that turd of a song)
