I don’t see any early resolution for LPV here simply because there is no buy-in. Only light GA would use it
I find that truly amazing. In the US before I left, the airliner traffic into SJC and SFO was all using LPV. And also at Nice here too. ILS is as good as dead.
The UK also intends to develop a UK SBAS (satellite-based augmentation system), equivalent to the U.S. WAAS and EU EGNOS systems. The new UK SBAS will replace the UK’s use of EGNOS, monitoring GNSS and enabling GNSS-dependent, high-accuracy positioning for autonomous applications and other precision uses.
Yes; that was mentioned further back up this thread I think. The UK could rent a transponder on some satellite, send the monitoring station signals up to it, do their own “safety of life” (hahaha) certification, and re-instate LPV authorisation. Then they have to get Garmin Avidyne etc to mod their firmware to support those SBAS channels.
It may happen or it may not. Nearly all GPS applications use the US NAVSTAR system only and for the others (ground survey stuff etc) EGNOS will “always” be there anyway.
The UK was even talking about doing its own GPS system 
the airliner traffic into SJC and SFO was all using LPV. And also at Nice here too. ILS is as good as dead.
I doubt that since there is no “CAT3 LPV”, and airline ops without CAT3 are more or less totally unviable.
Peter wrote:
the airliner traffic into SJC and SFO was all using LPV. And also at Nice here too. ILS is as good as dead.I doubt that since there is no “CAT3 LPV”, and airline ops without CAT3 are more or less totally unviable.
Peter, if they require Cat III, then they go for ILS, otherwise – why not?
Peter, if they require Cat III, then they go for ILS, otherwise – why not?
Exactly. I’ve never been flying myself in Cat III conditions, for obvious reasons, so I’m willing to believe they use the ILS for that. Not relevant to LFMN since it doesn’t have Cat III anyway.
I guess it’s only a matter of time before there are Cat III LPV approaches. After all the Garmin autoland is entirely GPS based.
johnh wrote:
guess it’s only a matter of time before there are Cat III LPV approaches. After all the Garmin autoland is entirely GPS based.
Any plans for that? I heard that CAT uses GBAS for lower minima trials (EDDF?), and it supposed to be down to Cat III.
Although there might be some trials in using GNSS without ground augmentation for lower approaches. @NCYankee might know?
Many many airline pilots are reading this. I know the answer from the airline pilots I know but perhaps we can get it from the horse’s mouth
There are several trials using GBAS as it is possibly the only way you are going.to.get CAT IIi b and IIIc.
At the moment AIUI these are just an add on to the ILS system for CAT III at the moment which is why there aren’t many around.
CAT 3 operations also require a RADALT to control parts of the landing so this is not just a case of using GPS. I have no doubt that a GPS derived CAT 3 will show up eventually but while the kit that is already in place works it is rather a case of “ if it’s not broke why fix it “ or perhaps who is going to pay for it.
CAT3a = DH less than 100ft RVRmin greater or equal to 700ft
CAT 3b = DH less than 50 ft RVR min greater or less than 150ft
CAT 3c = zero zero no limitations
These are all dependent on an airport being able to have low visibility procedures which basically means only 1 aircraft on final approach and runway at a time because the first will corrupt the signals for the second.
Also ground has to ensure that nothing has entered into the area in front of the signals.
Not as easy as it sounds in zero zero visibility. It is also difficult for the crew to manouver along the runway and onto the taxiway when they can’t even see the runway markings. This is where GBAS will greatly enhance safety especially if enhanced with SVS.
A CAT3 ILS system costs nearly $40million so it is only worth it for the busiest airports.
I don’t see it becoming a big thing in GA any time soon, do you?
GBAS is much cheaper but then again for the equivalent of CAT3 ops you would probably also need the back up autopilot as carried on CAT aircraft that use CAT3.
Aircraft using CAT 3a and 3b are usually equipped with some sort of auto land system.
There are no CAT3c systems anywhere IIUC.
