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Corona / Covid-19 Virus - General Discussion (politics go to the Off Topic / Politics thread)

Silvaire wrote:

It’s not particularly relevant how sick they might ultimately get if infected with a contagious illness, what’s arguably relevant is whether they are, now.

What’s important is whether they carry the virus or not. Only a tiny percentage get sick. I wonder how many has been infected without getting sick, I mean other than mild flu symptoms.

The elephant is the circulation
ENVA ENOP ENMO, Norway

Behind a paywall. What does it say?

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

When World Health Organisation head Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus said this in March 2020, few countries adopted the mantra with quite as much blind faith as Britain. We’ve tested like it’s going out of fashion, making other countries look positively slovenly when it comes to swabbing.

Just take a look at our testing numbers for 2021 compared with other G20 nations (below) – no other major country comes close. In fact, over the duration of the pandemic, only six nations have conducted more tests per capita than the UK (Austria, Cyprus, UAE, Slovakia, Denmark and Luxembourg).

Has all this testing done us any good? There’s little doubt that targeted testing – of hospital patients and care home staff, for example – has plenty of value. However, while it is difficult to draw concrete conclusions with so many factors in play, those countries that have tested the most don’t appear to have been noticeably more effective at blunting the pandemic.

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Britain, for example, is 25th globally in terms of Covid deaths per capita – despite its rapid vaccine rollout, while Austria and Slovakia are both in the midst of their third (or is it fourth?) lockdowns.

No other group – with the exception of schoolchildren – has been the target of testing fever quite as much as travellers. And, even after 20 months of travel restrictions have failed to stop every variant reaching every corner of the planet, the Government’s crosshairs remain firmly trained on the nasal passages of globetrotters.

As of 4am yesterday, the UK’s pre-departure tests are back. Therefore if you want to go abroad you will probably be subjected to at least three swabs: one before you leave (depending on your destination), a second no more than 48 hours before you come home (the pre-departure test), and a third when you arrive in Britain (the Day 2 test). If you’ve had the cheek to remain unvaccinated, you’ll need to take yet another test on Day 8.

One might forgive this arduous regime if it was proven to be effective, and not simply a way for private companies to fleece those with the temerity to leave the country. One might be indulgent if it made logical sense. But when the virus (and its latest variant) is already widespread here, why discriminate against travellers? Even beyond the obvious, there are countless absurdities and loopholes that litter the system.

Testing to come home before you’ve left
According to the Government, the pre-departure test forms part of our defences against the dreaded omicron variant that still hasn’t killed anyone, anywhere. However, if you’re going away for less than 48 hours – a quick city break in Stockholm, perhaps – you can take your pre-departure test on British soil. After all, why would anyone wait until they’re on holiday to do it and risk being stranded abroad?

Stockholm, Sweden
If you were going away for less than 48 hours, perhaps on a city break somewhere like Stockholm, it would theoretically be possible to take the test before you leave home CREDIT: Pocholo Calapre / EyeEm
The Day 2 test loophole
Disreputable travellers have for months been getting around the requirement for a Day 2 test by simply inputting old PCR test codes onto their Passenger Locator Form. The form is the only point at which a person is requested to show proof they have purchased a test before entering the country.

But it has been an open secret all year among regular travellers that the same test codes can be reused on multiple occasions as those operating the system do not cross-reference them against the books of private testing companies. Only recently have authorities, following checks by The Laboratory and Testing Industry Organisation, been made aware.

The problem with pre-departure testing
As with the Day 2 test, pre-departure checks are open to abuse. Instead of visiting a clinic in person, one can take a test kit away with them and then self-administer it, sometimes while on a video call with a health professional. However, other companies allow you to simply upload a photograph of the completed test to an app for verification. Needless to say this isn’t exactly a foolproof – or fraud-proof – system.

The never-ending list of exemptions
If these restrictions are an essential tool for keeping us safe, why is the list of jobs that “qualify for travel exemptions” as long as your arm? How – pray tell – will the rules keep omicron out when quarantine and testing is not required for aircraft crew, bus and coach drivers, civil aviation inspectors, Channel Tunnel workers, defence personnel, diplomats, drivers of goods vehicles, rail staff and port workers, among others?

NHS tests are free – why not travel tests?
Any time you fancy, you can visit the NHS website, or waltz into your local pharmacy, and blag a free jumbo pack of lateral flow tests. You don’t even need to use them. If you were so inclined, they could go straight in the bin.

Of course these tests aren’t really free. The Government is spending tens of billions on them, and this will inevitably be paid back in the form of higher taxes. But if our leaders are willing to subsidise somebody who fancies taking a test to see their gran, to go to the football, or just to pop to the Post Office, why not travellers? They are pumping money into the economy, after all. It is equally logical.

The waiting game
Under the current rules, returning travellers must stay at home until they receive the results of their Day 2 test. But once you’ve paid the testing company their money, there is very little incentive for them to hurry back with the good (or bad) news. Indeed, Twitter is awash with tales of long delays (often lasting several days) forcing people to stay at home or – if caught – face a hefty fine (not that much is being done to enforce the isolation period, of course). This further hinders Britain’s economic recovery, as people cannot spend money in restaurants or shops. If the Day 2 test isn’t scrapped, testing companies must face consequences for being tardy.

Confusion over the pre-departure testing deadline
The Government is continuing to issue conflicting advice over when Britons need to take their pre-departure test, even after the new rules have come into force. Its website, on some pages, says the tests should be taken “not more than 48 hours before” departure, but on others the deadline is “in the 2 days before your service to England departs”.

It could be worse
Perhaps we can take some solace in the fact that we’re not copying Canada, which – for some inexplicable reason – won’t accept negative tests conducted in Africa as proof that its citizens are Covid-free. Apparently nobody told them that the continent has laboratories to rival the best in the world. Instead, Canadians returning from the region must fly to a third country, get tested, and then board another flight to Canada. That’s science for you.

EGNS, Other

Interesting; many thanks.

However, if you’re going away for less than 48 hours – a quick city break in Stockholm, perhaps – you can take your pre-departure test on British soil.

This came up here repeatedly and I heard it somewhere but despite me asking for it, nobody found a reference for it. IOW, the Day 2 test does the job of the pre return to the UK test.

Disreputable travellers have for months been getting around the requirement for a Day 2 test by simply inputting old PCR test codes onto their Passenger Locator Form. The form is the only point at which a person is requested to show proof they have purchased a test before entering the country.

That does not surprise me (that these are not checked against any database) but it surely won’t work for a PCR test which needs a negative result from the lab, sent to the company you got the test from, which sends it to the track & trace outfit which instructs the Indian script monkey call centre to stop harrassing you. The mere act of filing a PLF without one of the exemptions triggers this “watch” process.

The Government is continuing to issue conflicting advice over when Britons need to take their pre-departure test, even after the new rules have come into force. Its website, on some pages, says the tests should be taken “not more than 48 hours before” departure, but on others the deadline is “in the 2 days before your service to England departs”.

In reality, the simplest hack is to take the Day 2 PCR kit with you and do the test just before the return flight and then post it at the airport. Of course you will have made sure the result will be negative; there are a few ways to do that, one of which is to take a PLF just before to make sure, and there are others for people who test positive at that point but want to cheat the quarantine, like sticking the swab up the nose of another person who did test negative…

Also fake certificates are common. Do a google on it. They are supposedly signed with a root certificate owned by Brussels (or the UK, etc) but there are several hacks out there, which rely on almost nobody doing real time checking of the QR code against a database of people and against a passport database.

Canadians returning from the region must fly to a third country, get tested, and then board another flight to Canada

Everybody can do that to circumvent red country rules. Especially if the destination is the UK (non EU) The transit airports don’t check your vacc / test status. And if they did, you can travel by road; then really nobody knows where you have been.

Tonight I saw a great example for a forged vacc certificate. The restaurant scanned the QR code (and saw my name and DOB in the phone app) but didn’t ask for any ID. So if your QR code escapes onto social media, anybody can read it (the app is free) and then photoshop the rest of the certificate. The establishment is obviously supposed to ask for your ID but they probably never do. Airports will though.

Finally, in today’s news: Omicron is rapidly spreading but not a single Brit has yet been hospitalised. So we live in interesting times. This thing is probably spreading as the speed of the common cold (catch it in the gym, catch it in a keep fit class, catch it in the office, catch it everywhere, many times a year) but it doesn’t do anything. And the number of Brits infected so far must be into tens of thousands.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Interesting article on why obese people do so badly with CV19.

A lot of research has focused on this and they were bound to work it out sooner or later.

Will it reduce obesity? What do ya think?

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

I really don’t understand why there are these testing requirements, particuarly for travel around Europe/UK/Eire. Omicron is already in every single European country, testing isn’t going to stop it or reduce the spread – it’s already everywhere. With 50k cases a day just from internal spread around the UK, it seems like a bit of a p1sstake to require any kind of testing for arriving from anywhere in the EU.

Andreas IOM

Peter wrote:

Will it reduce obesity? What do ya think?

The root cause of obesity is poverty, education, processed food diet, linked to poverty, blah, blah, blah. Our UK NHS is overwhelmed, not by Covid, but by obesity, drug & alcohol, and smoking related issues. Where do you start? If at all……

Fly safe. I want this thing to land l...
EGPF Glasgow

There is no solution – politically impossible…

This is from South Africa. Draw your own conclusions…

The problem is that Europe is mostly wealthy, and the scientific community has mostly got no stake in the economy. You could nuke any major European capital and the scientists advising the govts will still get their salaries paid straight to their bank.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

alioth wrote:

I really don’t understand why there are these testing requirements, particuarly for travel around Europe/UK/Eire. Omicron is already in every single European country, testing isn’t going to stop it or reduce the spread – it’s already everywhere.

Why do you expect this to make sense? The rules are made by the department of something-must-be-done.

Similar to the early days of delta; countries trying to keep it out to buy time; it lasted a couple of months and then the restrictions were removed. However, that was a year ago when it made a bit more sense because even a few weeks delay in the face of vaccination just about to become available could make quite some difference.

Biggin Hill
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