DavidS wrote:
IIRC it proved the existence of the Higgs
Wait, that’s the guy from “How to train your dragon”, isn’t it? I know that guy. He’s funny! 
I once worked there at CERN, for a short period of time. Feels like another life…
Airborne_Again wrote:
My house has water-based underfloor heating in some rooms with wooden floors. The builder who installed the floors and the heating during a renovation did not appear to think it was difficult at all. He did advise against electric underfloor heating on wooden floors.
My architect strongly advised me not to install water-based underfloor heating in wooden floors, because they may move. He told me that he had quite some installation sites to observe, where these systems had broken and very slowly went the heating water into the floor.
I now have wall heating installed, which is more or less the same technique as underfloor heating, but in the walls. I think it’s the best you can have. This is fed by an air-to-liquid heat pump, which is working since 8 years now. It is basically a big fridge, simple system. I don’t know whether the COP is anywhere near how it was advertised. But what I know is that it still makes the house warm at -15°C and I’m really happy with the low power it consumes. I made the calculations for the installation, and the bills I get for my electrical supply are not that much higher than what I calculated.
not to install water-based underfloor heating in wooden floors, because they may move
That’s what I was getting at. The underfloor heating installations I have seen were all on concrete floors, all had multiple “circuits” in the floor screed (a cement layer) all coming out in a box in a corner, and done such that if one circuit developed a leak it could be swapped for another. Inaccessible leaks are a really nasty problem, and are not unusual, due to stupid installers putting stuff where you can’t get to it without ripping off the ceiling below, and variations thereof 
but in the walls
That’s a very interesting angle, and deals with the radiator area needed for a heat pump. What does the wall look like? Just a flat panel?
Airborne_Again wrote:
My house has water-based underfloor heating in some rooms with wooden floors.
I think we need to specify what we mean by “wooden floors”. In some countries this would refer to a thin (e.g. 3-5mm) wood layer on a concrete floor (where the tubing for the heating really is), while in other countries that refers to a “real wooden floor” so a wood construction of the entire underground without concrete below it. The latter one you rarely find in Germany at all and I have not a single such in Germany where a floor heating was installed.
The former one is quite common here also with floor heating. Have it for almost 10 years now and no problem at all.
Peter wrote:
Has anyone here actually implemented anything like this, and how exactly did they do it?
In Norway there has never been any gas boilers, or gas for that matter (except smaller gas tanks used for BBQs and some stoves, outdoor heating etc). Lots of oil boilers in the past, but these have been banned for several years already. Electricity and one or two wood fireplaces per house is the “standard” today. Some have water based area heating or whatever it’s called, but that only exists in some few central places. I remember when I was a little boy, we had a coal/coke fireplace combined with wood at some time. This was replaced with an oil fireplace Nothing like this today AFAIK.
Peter wrote:
Their chief challenge is you get “low grade heat”
Indeed. Air/air units are very popular here though. In the neighborhood, my house is probably the only one without some form of heat pump I think the quite literally suck. When the outside temperature creeps below -10, they hardly work at all. Overall they do reduce the electricity bill, but only if you use it for heating exclusively, not cooling. They are efficient, but what a mess; big, bulky, ugly, noisy. These units that use heat from the ground (drill a deep hole) are better.
I have never heard of any problems with water based underfloor heating in wooden floors. They are used a lot here. Electric cables/mats/foils are more common, but that’s because they are easier to install, especially in older buildings. Electric underfloor heating is also easier to vary the temperature. The “fuel” is electricity nonetheless. Water based underfloor heating lasts for ages though, while these electric mats/foils only last for 20-30 years for some odd reason.
Peter wrote:
How is this approached in other countries?
Today for new houses, the recommendation is simply electric heating of some kind. How doesn’t really matter, but waterborne electric heating seems to be “hot” these days. The heat pump mania a few years ago has cooled down almost to zero, which I think has something to do with noise, reliability and the fact that you cannot rely exclusively on a heat pump to heat up the house. There is a requirement, by law, for a chimney, even if you never will use it. The reason is there has to be a viable alternative to electricity. All new and old houses have a combination of wooden fireplace and electricity today. The special heat, light, noise and smell from a wooden fireplace is good for the soul IMO
We pay 6.7 US cents per kW-hr for natural gas versus 33 cents per kW-hr for electrical power, so you can imagine what I’d rather use for heating water, and the house as a whole when it’s needed in winter. Our house is heated by gas but unfortunately for my utility bill the new outside spa is heated by electricity, for easier installation. That’s how they sell them, even if it makes no economic sense long term. That alone soaks up about $50 USD a month in electrical power. But my wife uses it daily… happy wife, happy life
One way to save on utility cost is to move to a location that doesn’t need either heating or AC very often. We use either sporadically for about 6 weeks during a typical year. However the irrigation etc water cost is $200/month year round so there’s no free lunch if you want a green garden.
My cable TV + internet bill is also higher than gas and electric combined, so I’m not too worked up about home energy cost.
Historically, here, electricity was always the most expensive, and gas the cheapest, although oil (on which there is no choice in much of the countryside) is probably similar to gas depending on the price which is quite variable. I would think a heat pump would be OK for heating a spa (what here is called a “jacuzzi”, presumably); they work on on swimming pools. A hot bath is +40C which a heat pump can do… on a good day.
Regarding wooden flooring, what here is called “parquet flooring” is wood (say 1cm thick) glued to a concrete floor. Obviously that is solid, and fine for underfloor heating. It looks like this, and has been common in apartment buildings which are mostly of steel construction with concrete floors
If one was installing underfloor heating one might rip up the wood, install the heating layer and then lay down new wood.
The majority of UK houses (family houses) have wooden floors like this
and I’d like to know what product could be used to do underfloor heating on that, because (a) these floors are a bit flexible and (b) there is a lot of wiring and plumbing in the void (c. 20cm) under the floor so access is required, and individual floorboards can be lifted up. In some situations where a much stiffer floor was needed (generally, where you are putting down ceramic tiles e.g. expensive kitchens, or expensive bathrooms) one puts 1-2 layers of chipboard on these floorboards to produce a stiff floor but then there is no way to get inside it for access.
40C would be plenty. We keep ours at 100F or about 38C 24/7/365. It’s insulated pretty well but you’re still leaking a lot of heat to the outside environment.
Jacuzzi is a brand name, but yes it’s the same thing. Ours was made by one of their many subsidiaries, they’ve been buying up all their competitors for years.
Its not just Sea Eagles apparently:
“Windmills affect how Reindeer behave ":https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/18/sami-reindeer-herders-file-lawsuit-against-oyfjellet-norway-windfarm-project
Peter wrote:
What was the product used for underfloor heating, on a flexible floor?
Flexible plastic tubing in grooves in a chipboard for stiffness.
Malibuflyer wrote:
I think we need to specify what we mean by “wooden floors”. In some countries this would refer to a thin (e.g. 3-5mm) wood layer on a concrete floor (where the tubing for the heating really is), while in other countries that refers to a “real wooden floor” so a wood construction of the entire underground without concrete below it.
In my case it is a “real wooden floor”.
Peter wrote:
The majority of UK houses (family houses) have wooden floors like this
and I’d like to know what product could be used to do underfloor heating on that, because (a) these floors are a bit flexible and (b) there is a lot of wiring and plumbing in the void (c. 20cm) under the floor so access is required, and individual floorboards can be lifted up.
That’s the kind of floor I have. There’s no wiring beneath it. Some plumbing, but access to that is not expected.
