Dan wrote:
Absolutely. And when on a flight information frequency will, most often than not, warn one about any CAS or restricted area ahead
In defence of London and Scottish info, they will do that (I’ve had them remind me of CAS (of which I was of course aware!) when I’ve called them up while on a heading and altitude that would eventually take me near/in it).
AIUI, London Info are not allowed to say anything which might indicate they can see you on radar.
So if you are heading for some CAS the correct procedure is to hand you over to say Farnborough who can then tell you overtly. Obviously this causes a delay… most busts happen in minutes if not seconds.
Yes – it is utterly beyond belief!
London Info probably do tell you in “very general terms” that you are heading for CAS with a 5500ft base (if say coming from France to the south east, at FL070), because that bends the “I am not radar qualified” rule sufficiently…
Looking at the latest UK CAA data
they are getting back up to speed on sending the usual quota of 20/month for the ridiculous GASCO punishment “course”…
The license suspensions are curious too. These are permanent license removals unless the pilot complies with certain requirements. As usual the CAA publishes no data (maybe someone needs to do another FOIA application, like was done to blow this whole crazy system open a few years ago) but it can be all the way to re-doing your PPL. Anecdotally, a number get to sit all the exams and do a skills test – no safety value and purely designed to punish and humiliate.
The total numbers of busts show the no-prisoners policy is having no effect whatsoever
Today I saw a nice result of the CAA’s no-prisoners policy.
Departed, and the one departing behind me was Mode A only. He realised his error pretty soon though and turned his txp right off 
Where he was going, he definitely would have needed it back on though…
In the next hour or so, 75% were Mode A. Normally it is 30-50%. No altitude showing. Even one dickhead flying really close to Lydd airport, low level, where I did a practice ILS and was at a very low level when going around and climbing steeply.
I can see why people do it enroute – the CAA guy responsible will end up with blood on his hands over time – but why do it near airfields where you are going to or from? I am not talking about ATZ busts either; yes the CAA treats those same as Class A.
Mode A is generally a deliberate setting on a Mode C/S.
I have active TAS (TCAS 1) so I see a lot of this.
If you change mode in flight then you risk detection if ATC notices the change or cares to look at the tapes.
If you fly mode A for the whole flight it probably won’t raise any suspicion.
As James Bordeaux has highlighted some differences in ATS between France and the UK . I thought this FFA REX would show some of the differences on this topic. Quick translation from the French
Description of the event:
During my first baptism flight this morning, I entered class A at Roissy.
After crossing the Oise and passing through the south of Royaumont Abbey, I took a route avoiding flying over the villages but taking me over the town of Fosses.
I immediately realized my mistake, but I couldn’t turn left otherwise I would pass over the houses.
I continued to the A1 motorway which I went up to reach Parc Astérix.
The atmosphere of this flight was particularly noisy, with children shouting yes or no.
When I returned from my flight, I got on the phone. the head of air traffic at 01.30.75.00.47. who told me that I was 2.5 nautical miles from the Roissy slopes and that I had to be careful!
Comment from the declarant:
I think I was distracted by the noisy atmosphere. The strong wind then pushed me into Class A.
Educational summary:
Involuntary penetration of the Roissy class A CTR
Discovery flights for children for the benefit of an association.
Mild weather, north wind 15kts.
Aircraft equipped with a Mode S transponder, active during flight.
land located NW of the Roissy CTR.
Departure from the field from the East as recommended jointly by the ATO, at an altitude of 1300ft (the floor of the TMA north of Roissy is 1500ft.)
Avoiding flying over the numerous villages leads to a sinusoidal trajectory in this sector.
Engrossed by the children, happy to discover the plane, and under the effect of a strong north wind, the pilot involuntarily let the plane drift south of the desired trajectory.
When he became aware of penetrating Roissy airspace to the north of the runways (oriented E/W), he arrived at
above Fosses -Marly La Ville -Survilliers.
He made the choice:
*so as not to frighten children by flying very low over buildings
*protect yourself in the event of engine damage, and
*for local residents
to go around the houses from the south; bringing him, in fact, closer to the runways.
At the closest he actually flew 3NM from the northern doublet, approximately at the level of wpt RH1.
As he explains, he used a characteristic point (Parc Astérix) to exit the CTR by following along the A1 motorway.
Summary of the action plan:
Corrective actions: CRESAG carried out
The pilot spontaneously recognized his error and apologized to the head of air traffic who he
contacted.
I thank this pilot for his intellectual honesty.
For the moment, after consultation between the president and the educational manager, the pilot is no longer authorized to
carry out discovery flights.
Preventive actions :
A reminder was made to club members of the absolute necessity of being aware of their position everywhere, our ground being close to class A of Roissy.
My note from memory I think Roissy Charles De Gaulle consists of 2 runways north of the terminals and 2 to the south.
I think he flew 3nm to the northern 2 runways.
In my translation I could not think of an English alternative to “doublet”.
gallois wrote:
I immediately realized my mistake, but I couldn’t turn left otherwise I would pass over the houses.
A tricky situation where every choice is bad in some way.
The question is what would pose the greatest safety issue? Flying over the houses or (possible) loss of separation from traffic at Roissy. Then there is also the question of potential consequences for the pilot.
It is quite possible that the least bad choice would be different for these two questions…
The answer is to get onto the radio straight away and tell ATC what has happened. They they can plan knowing what you are doing.
Whatever the rights or wrongs of the pilot’s action. What was posted was what he did and why plus the consequences which is what the topic is about.
We might all have done things differently and it is much easier to think about when sitting in your armchair thinking about it.
IMHO these reports have much more educational value than having your licence suspended or being sent off to a course, where if Peter’s experience is correct they probably preach the same speil everytime and you are not allowed to ask questions or investigate with others alternate actions when you find yourself inadvertantly in a similar situation.
Yes we all need to avoid flying into CAS without clearance, or class A in VFR, but stuff happens.
Everyone can make a mistake given the right/wrong circumstances.
Indeed. The fact that the report is posted on a forum and people are discussing it, gives an opportunity for others to think about what they would have done and what they could do better if faced with the same situation (that was the point of my post rather than criticism).
That’s far better than pilots huddled away into a dark room where they get lectured to and end up leaving too ashamed to admit their mistake to anyone else, never mind give the opportunity for public discussion and learning.
