National CAA policies around Europe on busting pilots who bust controlled airspace (and danger areas)

I would add

• Random Radar Unit offering LARS. Specialises in providing “limited radar information service due to controller workload”. These are the only words you ever hear on frequency, until you say goodbye, then it is a cheery “freecall enroute”

Thanks Thomas, that made me laugh out loud.

From here

Off topic a little BUT…….

Peter wrote:

IME they are always highly interested in transgressions and prosecutions, much more than in flying (most don’t fly).

Peter, you and I have batted this one around on this and a few other forums/groups in the past….

I appreciate your frustration at having had a ‘meeting without biccies’ in the past with the Authority and which was a seemingly less pleasant interaction than it should have been . However please understand that the ATCO, certainly in the UK, is REQUIRED by the authority to make a report on any breach of the regulations. I suspect this will be the case throughout the international ATC community also. We are NOT a bunch of fanatical zealots who are itching to catch out unsuspecting pilots. Our job is to ensure the safe conduct of flights appropriate to the classification of airspace they are operating in.
What the Authority does with the reports is up to them. The ATCO has absolutely NO influence on the subsequent action taken….we do not MAKE the rules however we must abide by them and report on breaches of them. By NOT doing so we are ourselves in breach of the reporting regulations and open to action by the Authority.

So can I steer your frustration more at the relevant Authority rather than the ATCO community who are not the flaming-torch-wielding, robe-wearing, chanting and demonic group you believe we are…

SD

[ @Spamcan_Defender post moved to on-topic thread as the original thread was already an off-topic nightmare ]

Spamcan_Defender wrote:

I suspect this will be the case throughout the international ATC community also

I don’t think it’s the case in the US: they have some discretion. Not every minor infringement results in a “Possible pilot deviation”.

I don’t think it’s the case in the US: they have some discretion. Not every minor infringement results in a “Possible pilot deviation”.

Many US deviations result in nothing except ATC (typically an Airport Tower In relation to Class D airpspace) giving instructions to an aircraft that is in contact to resolve the issue – you hear this on the radio occasionally, and most often there’s no follow up. By my observation the ones that most often get a phone call are where Approach contacts the destination tower in relation to Class C or B airspace and asks for a call with the pilot – who had never made radio contact with Approach in flight. Of those I’ve seen with friends and acquaintances where a phone call was requested, all but one ended with the phone call, nothing more. Only one time in 22 years of consistent aviating and socializing has anybody I know had an airspace violation related FAA action against them. In that case the guy flew through the middle of a Class D airport’s airspace without talking to anyone, and then landed at an adjacent airport where Tower gave him a phone number. He was then uncooperative and in denial on the call, and in the subsequent FSDO meeting. So given the attitude (and he has one) they gave him a 90 day suspension.

I think I’ve told the story here before where a friend’s aged father (not much short of 90) took off and climbed from the airport out of the Class D and eventually without a clearance into Class B airspace overhead. The subsequent FSDO phone call was with both father and son, and ended with the son telling Approach that he was taking the father’s keys away after 70 years of flying. FSDO agree to take no action and it was a solemn moment for all concerned, but that’s what happened as it wasn’t an isolated incident – the father had not long before forgotten to lower his landing gear on final and Tower told him to go around. Everything has an end. He died a couple of years later with no harm done.

I got three “please call this number on landing” while I lived in the US.

One was where I’d flown through Livermore KLVK’s Class D without a clearance. I thought it went up to 2400 but in fact it goes to 2900. I was suitably apologetic and there was no follow up.

One was on takeoff in the heli out of Reno. We hadn’t done anything wrong at all, just departed their airspace in a way they weren’t expecting. I never understood why they made a fuss, but the moral is, especially in a heli, always make sure ATC know what you’re planning to do.

One was returning to KLVK in the L-39, where we caused an RA to an airliner. Again we were doing nothing wrong, though it would have been prudent to be talking to Norcal and we weren’t (legal in Class E).