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National CAA policies around Europe on busting pilots who bust controlled airspace (and danger areas)

None for Scotland and Northern Ireland.!

Maoraigh
EGPE, United Kingdom

Well, I am about to put the UK system to the test having reported myself for a probable minor class D CTA zone bust, caused by climbing to avoid an aircraft on an intersecting course that was conducting a sequence of hard manoeuvres and climbing just underneath my level (he was less than 200’ below and in a climbing turn into me when he disappeared under my wing and I decided enough was enough). It will be interesting to see if I am found ‘guilty’ of taking action to maintain safe separation. I think the radar recording will be bear me out. I poured on the power and climbed knowing I was near the base of the CTA and hoping that even if he didn’t spot me he would stop his climb. Busy trying to get eyes back on him I ballooned my level. Not by much and not for long.

EGTB, United Kingdom

It will indeed be interesting how they react to this. Good luck to you and keep us updated!

Low-hours pilot
EDVM Hildesheim, Germany

I have just seen a back up text of a CD which was put out by the CAA when the UK changed its system and introduced the categories Basic Service etc. What it points out is that there are only 2 services suitable for IMC flight.
They are deconfliction service and procedural service. I don’t recall procedural service being mentioned on this forum and I can’t remember anyone saying I should ask for it, so perhaps someone can explain how it fits in and how to get it if asked what service I require.

France

Thanks for posting that, Pipersport. Hopefully the CAA won’t go after you. It would make them look dreadful if they did. They are supposed to be applying “just culture”, after all.

procedural service.

The only context where I have heard of this is with instrument approaches, where there is no radar. So e.g. if Shoreham had an approach controller, it would be procedural service, because there is no radar.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

@gallois Procedural service is a non-surveillance IFR only service – so no radar.

EGTB, United Kingdom

You get procedural service for uncontrolled IFR when flying IAP at Lydd which is fully OCAS, you will be talking to Approach ATC but there is no radar and there is no controlled airspace, they will give you approach clearance at some point (it’s Class G but you are “in vicinity”) and report positions and fly prescribed procedural tracks

You get procedural service for controlled VFR/IFR when talking to “visual tower ATC”, typically tower in ATZ in Class G (Redhill) or tower ATZ in Class D (Gatwick & Southend), VDP ATC may have traffic screens but with disclaimers: “this TV is for champions league games only”, they will ask to report 3nm final, downwind while on procedural service in the ATZ, outside the ATZ, in CAS, you will be back Radar Control Service with Radar ATC

You can get procedural service in CAS with Approach ATC but it’s rare unless the radar is broken or the guy running it, next time when you call “Aberdeen Radar” and the guy replies back “no, this is Aberdeen Approach”, he will likely ask you to report passing overhead ADN, why he would say so if he has a radar

To confuse things more you get some “deconfliction on a procedural service”, but it’s not radar deconfliction service of 5000ft/5nm from any blip

Last Edited by Ibra at 01 May 12:41
Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

gallois wrote:

I have just seen a back up text of a CD which was put out by the CAA when the UK changed its system and introduced the categories Basic Service etc.

That’s interesting. Could you share this somehow? What year is it from?

EDDW, Germany

I’ll look it up when I get a minute but I think it was either 2005 0r 2007.

France

Maybe a dumb question but how can a Danger Area be “busted”? Aren’t they by definition “un-busteable”?

I was taught a pilot may fly through a DA at his own risk. Obviously nobody with a brain would fly through one which is hot/active, but if it wasn’t allowed to fly through one, why would it be defined as a DA rather than an RA in the first place?

EDDW, Germany
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