I guess one would have to compare the European numbers to a half-continent which is not suffering from such issues and then extrapolate the “damage” from there in order to come up with a number for something that is not there.
Or just estimate the potential market vs. actual, then estimate the second- and third order effects of such infrastructure missing. This is frequently done in other cartel cases, so there is sufficient literature and practice available.
I am far from being an expert in EU anti monopoly provisions, but for sure (if started) this will be some 2-3 years process, with hardly predictable outcome… However I think it is worth trying, particularly in this Greek case, wher Fraport is some alien element. Such action here might get support not only from the side of just GA pilots, but maybe of some broader society/ national level? Then the chances go up…
And I am pretty sure the reasoning used for Greece could be latter applied to a number of other EU countries, where airports are in fact doing the same, getting rid of GA with the use of high fees.
Once the regulation is of EU level the member states regulatory bodies have pretty straightforward job of just implementation, so winning Greek airports would be of value for many.
I am ready to support such process, even knowing it will be long and hardly predictable.
But how to start that, who could lead it? Legals of AOPA of Greece? Maybe some vigorous AOPA of some other country?
Bart wrote:
But how to start that, who could lead it?
Probably AOPA and other advocacy organisations, plus the scattered pilot community exerting pressure on many local MEPs. There seem to be at least three ways to do it, which can all be taken at the same time: via MEPs → European Parliament → European Commission as a legislative initiative to strengthen the European transport infrastructure, via the EU competition authority (which is one of the direct functions of the European Commission), and via the national competition authorities, which are also empowered to enforce the EU rules.
Can someone tell me if Fraport is the same outfit that took over LHBP?
C210_Flyer wrote:
Can someone tell me if Fraport is the same outfit that took over LHBP?
No, they are not.
I had the “pleasure” of travel airline to / from Iraklio in the last few days. And I have to say, it’s been a long time since I’ve seen an infrastructure so run down and an airport reminding me of places far away from Europe.
On arrival, stairs and steps everywhere, nightmare with a buggy.
All rental car companies peched in a tiny hallway which gives each of them 2 counters… result: 1-20 waiting time to get the car.
The whole arrival area reeks of dirt.
On departure: Dark, gloomy departure hall, had trouble finding the check in desk. There you weigh your suitcase then carry it again over to an ancient x-ray machine where we wanted to check in a spare buggy- which was refused. Had to hand carry it to the airplane.
Security: Tight, tiny, dirty, but nice and helpful folks. With a baby you get directed the fast lane. Equipent looks very old.
Departure Hall: Small, dirty, way too small for the amount of people they have, PA is totally unreadable. From the gate, stairs down to the apron, no ramps, no elevators.
Well, if that is the state of state run airports there, then no wonder they wanted to get rid of some. Maybe Fraport will modernize the airports they did get, Iraklio is by far the worst airline terminal I’ve seen in Europe in 20 years. The next thing which comes close is in very dark Africa.
Other than that I have to say, the people of Crete we encountered were to most friendly and open I’ve ever come across. The two places we stayed in were as different as they could be – a family run BnB at Stalida with a staff of 4 and a large all inclusive resort near Ierapetra – but the staff were such that they made you feel part of their family in a very short term. We were shown every courtesy with our small baby and when leaving almost the entire staff lined up to bid us farewell and wish a great trip. All I can say: Wow. Now I know why people will go through such lenghts to find a solution for GA in Greece.
Ooops! Iraklion is Not in the pack of 14 airports given to Fraport.Propably because there is a decade old debate about abandoning it and remastering a nearby MIL airport for civilian service (Kasteli).So,wish you a happy endurance with the Afro-Soviet one !
GA has a different experience to airline passengers.
For example, according to the internet… the worst airport in Europe is Santorini LGSR. But I had no trouble there at all (it is the city itself where they sell you 1m of toilet paper for €1 and you get ripped off frequently – because they get constant fresh business from the cruise ships). I also never had any trouble at Corfu LGKR even though that is not far behind Santorini in the reports. But then GA doesn’t normally queue up like cattle… well they do sometimes e.g. La Rochelle in France 
And the queue for the first flight of Thomson at London Gatwick, c. 4am, is actually quite similar.
IME, at the bigger Greek airports, a lady from the handling company meets you and escorts you past the hordes of cattle waiting airline passengers to the handling office where you hand over some €€€, then escorts you to the CAA office where you hand over more €€€ (usually not much), then escorts you to the plane.
I am sure Fraport will income-strip the airports first (this summer season) and make many millions from that, and upgrade them later (that takes time) when the tourist season has ended.
Kasteli will take years to redevelop to airline standards.
MedFlyer wrote:
Ooops! Iraklion is Not in the pack of 14 airports given to Fraport.Propably because there is a decade old debate about abandoning it and remastering a nearby MIL airport for civilian service (Kasteli).So,wish you a happy endurance with the Afro-Soviet one !
I know. The passenger handling side could do with a bit of know how however. The way it is now, it’s inacceptable. Alone the check in process is crazy… and the departure hall beyond description. It may well be that they have stopped to invest in it with the background of moving elsewhere. Maybe they leave LGIR to GA afterwards….
Alexis wrote:
While it is true that it is not on a German or Swiss standard, I do not think that it is dirty. It is not very practical, but it’s okay, and I never had big problems.
It was on Monday, believe me. And full to the brink, it was hardly possible to get to the gate. Totally overcrowded. I’ll definitly avoid it using airlines for the forseeable future. For GA I hear it’s good and that is nice. Maybe it’s really time to fly there myself… if I can get a refuelling place enroute someplace.
