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How to file a flight plan for IFR flights in uncontrolled airspace in France (and other places)

Thanks guys, your postings did answer my question. And quickly, too!

EDFE, EDFZ, KMYF, Germany

The MaxDCT = 0 I mentioned is for takeoff & departure under 2000ft Class A, funnily, if you file Z-FPL from Toussus, ATC will toss it away and give you SID take it or leave it, one friend who used to have an EIR used to take those in Paris

I think for departures without SID, I was told need to join airways within 30nm for things to validate but sometimes 60nm seems to work fine in CFMU/IFPS, for waypoints inside the route, no idea but 10nm is really short

For Shoreham-LaRochelle, well it’s a straight line as Paris is not on your way

Last Edited by Ibra at 19 Apr 20:05
Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

there is max DCT=0

Does this method no longer work then? (MAXDCT was 10nm there)

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

For Toussus, on departure, there is max DCT=0 outside SID you have to be on SID for lost comms in Paris TMA, there are no FPL waypoint inside for a good 50nm most LFPN RNAV SID require FL120 to validate (e.g. OPALE), you can stop the climb at FL70 with no issue once you have left Paris just agree on this with ATC on this as you call for startup…the “other trick” is to file CONV SID, like DCT MTD at FL70 (Montdidier)

PS: you also need correct equipment in FPL as well, DME for instance, if you don’t have it some routes will fail to validate (it’s PBN airspace and no DME required, Paris TMA lost comms procedure refer to 40D POY and here you go, non-standard ICAO lost comms = new DME requirement !)

Last Edited by Ibra at 19 Apr 19:40
Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

As arj1 said it’s Echo Airways usually above FL65 all over France, they are not shown on the map but it’s not Golf


Last Edited by Ibra at 19 Apr 19:22
Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

Caba wrote:

I asked the controller for confirmation I was in class G airspace, but she told me I was in class E. I´m not sure she was right, what do you guys think?

All airways in France which are not parts of another CTA are class E from their lower limit to FL115 (or higher in mountainous terrain). Airways normally extend 5 NM to either side of the centreline. At DIKOL you’d be in in AWY J10 with lower limit FL65, so above that level you’d be in class E.

This class E is not charted by e.g. SkyDemon. Don’t know about ForeFlight.

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

Caba wrote:

I asked the controller for confirmation I was in class G airspace, but she told me I was in class E. I´m not sure she was right, what do you guys think?

Often the Class E is not show on the charts as it does not affect the VFR anyway. @Ibra can point you in the right directions.

EGTR

Hello @all,
I don´t know which thread is the best to ask this question, I´ll just bring up this one.
I flew to Toussus yesterday and back to Mainz today. All in all a great family trip without too many surprises. The question I have is about the class of airspace near Reims.

Funnily enough, the flight to LFPN validated through Eurocontrol at FL80, the return flight would only validate at FL120 or higher. The routings between Paris TMA and Luxembourg were only a few miles apart.

Today, while approaching the end of the SID after an eternity at DIKOL I wanted to turn directly to MMD, instead of waiting until intercepting the airway M163 at FL90. Paris told me I could not turn, although I would definitely have stayed clear of the restricted airspace south of the route. I asked the controller for confirmation I was in class G airspace, but she told me I was in class E. I´m not sure she was right, what do you guys think?
I was not about to argue with her of course, it did not make much of a difference anyway, but I was rather astonished.

EDFE, EDFZ, KMYF, Germany

I flew LFPN-LFAO this weekend both out & return to/from Bagonles were under IFR, as usual AutoRouter requires FL70 near Paris and hooking to SID & STAR, I filed FL70 both ways but I flew at FL50 to stay between the layers (icing level was at FL60 with some tiny frontal stratus)

Large portion of the trip was IFR OCAS but zero issues leaving & join, I was following the usual winter guidelines:
- Can’t make SID/STAR, advise as early as possible (on startup and 30min before re-join CAS)
- File at FL70 and if necessary fly FL50 (2kft difference is acceptable and 4kft is not)
- Take care of your own in Golf (traffic, terrain, restricted areas like VFR flight)

If I needs more that this cancel IFR and sort it VFR fully OCAS to avoid IFR/VFR switching or IFR at low altitudes…

Last Edited by Ibra at 08 Nov 16:10
Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

So I did this trip last week and was routed direct from TRACA to BILGO at FL90. So no problems with that bit of airspace and a slight shortcut on my flightplan.

United Kingdom
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