Would anyone have any tips on how to best file a flight plan for IFR flights in uncontrolled airspace in France? I would want to transit France from the UK to Germany and there are times (mainly due to icing) where I want to fly IFR below the airway MEAs or fly directs which would go through uncontrolled airspace. However, given the Eurocontrol RAD DCT restrictions in France, one can’t file an IFPS-acceptable flight plan that does not go via airways (explicitly allowed RAD DCTs excepted). Or it would be possible only with non-sensible flight plans (Autorouter uses the allowed RAD DCTs) or flight plans with hacks (e.g. with coordinates or radial/distance every 10 NM).
The two other options I have considered are:
(1) File a composite flight plan whereby the route starts off as IFR + VFR flight rule change for route through uncontrolled airspace + change back to IFR flight rule for the remaining portion. Given that no clearance is required in uncontrolled airspace, fly IFR under IFR rules then irrespective of what the flight plan says. Obtain clearance to rejoin controlled airspace after the end of the planned segment through uncontrolled airspace or whenever necessary (e.g. icing layer higher than forecast/planned)
(2) File an IFR flight plan that validates in IFPS but then negotiate/tell ATC that I would want to fly below the MEA or a direct through uncontrolled airspace. In cases of flying below MEA, this would mean filing a level (e.g. MEA of FL70) which is higher than what I intend to fly and/or am able to fly but tell ATC that I would want a lower level (e.g. FL50) through uncontrolled airspace or request a direct through uncontrolled airspace.
Neither of the options (these two or the hacked flight plans mentioned above) sound particularly attractive and could be confusing to ATC. Based on your experience, what would you do and/or have you done?
Wolfgang
Hello Wolfang. I will try to point a few people to this who might have some good experience with low-level IFR in France.
@Aviathor might know, but I am a bit afraid he might have left the forum…
@PetitCessnaVoyageur might know something, too.
@Niner_Mike might have some experience as well.
@Guillaume is a French ATC and IR pilot, so might know the technical (flightplan/IFPS) side of the story.
BTW, is there any french IR instructor here on the forum?
wbardorf wrote:
flight plans with hacks (e.g. with coordinates or radial/distance every 10 NM).
I was just told yesterday by a freshly-qualified IR pilot that this technique works with IFPS and French ATC in Class G as low as MSA.
Looks tedious for long trips.
Search EuroGA for
charade
for some ways to hack Eurocontrol routings.
Welcome to EuroGA 
Did you try autorouter, defining your ceiling below MEAs?
Hello Peter,
Thanks! I have recently moved from Singapore (back) to the UK with my plane. Looking forward to flying regularly in Europe again although I miss the warmer weather at this time of the year… ;-)
Peter/Jujupilote, thanks, the hacks would get the flight plan in but was looking at and comparing that to other options like the two ones I mentioned, to understand what regular flyers in France do and what ATC are used to seeing.
Emir, yes have tried that for 5000 ft and no possible route comes up.
Wolfgang
IME the validation base for France is generally the base of class E ie FL065 or so. The 1M SIA chart shows the routes.
Clearly, I am not a specialist, and barely fly IFR under MEA’s !
From where I fly, the Sainte Victoire is a good reason not to (among others :-)
As for the two options you mention, I find the first one not so well fitted, and by (small) personal experience, controllers in France don’t love when you switch flight rules enroute (have been asked few times if I was flying IFR or VFR when mixing flight rules enroute).
Second one would seem better (to me), but you rely on ATC acceptance. What the (small) experience has taught me, in France, is that:
- first example, on this flight [LFMA F060 MTG Y25 FJR G39 AFRIC LFCK], being given a direct (after asking), the ATC warned me that the MSA (as I would leave the airway) was higher than FL60, and requested me to confirm I wanted to maintain FL60. No much problem for them after confirmation.
- when returning to home base, which doesn’t have an IFR approach, I’m always able to descend below the radar minimum altitude, if I confirm I have the ground in sight (the flight remaining IFR and in controlled airspace – not below)
- when entering uncontrolled airspace ( laterally ), which is generally not for a long time, ATC warns you that the service is downgraded, and keeps you on the radio. You receive traffic informations as far as they can, and would allow you to descend on your own responsibility. I can remember such a situation between LFMT (Montpellier), and LFDB (Montanan). They kept me IFR until the airfield was in sight.
- in the Nice airspace, MEA is FL150 for ATC reasons, and not only terrain. Filling FL150, I’ve able to fly FL130 on request. This was under MEA, but into controlled airspace.
- I cannot remember of a case where I asked to descend (vertically) from controlled airspace into lower uncontrolled airspace while flying IFR
The more general question is what altitude should be considered when you have a direct (CA or OCA). In France, my impression is that they let you do your maths.
Not sure it helps !
But would be interested to read other’s experiences.
Welcome!
I would pick proposal (2): file a normal route at a normal IFR altitude and negotiate for lower but stay above MEA: going below MEA sounds like inviting trouble by design. I would prepare to fly the filed route laterally, so take the route that Autorouter proposes as the probable one. I would definitely avoid Paris with a wide detour and I wouldnt do this in higher terrain as you might get stuck with this strategy. Honestly, not flying or flying above or around ice seem to be much safer bets.
I have never done this deliberately but I have found myself in this situation a couple of times in France when I had to descend for ice or other reasons.
See for instance Visiting Dassault
I remained IFR at 4000ft far west of Paris, in constant communication but with multiple announcements that I was leaving/entering controlled airspace.
Good luck …
Not sure it still applies, but I found this text:
Règles applicables aux vols IFR hors de l’espace aérien contrôlé
5.3.1 Niveaux de croisière
Un aéronef en vol IFR dans la phase de croisière en palier hors de l’espace aérien contrôlé utilise un niveau de croisière correspondant à sa route magnétique, comme il est spécifié :
a) dans les tableaux des niveaux de croisière de l’Appendice 3 ;
b) dans un tableau modifié des niveaux de croisière lorsqu’il en est ainsi décidé conformément aux dispositions de l’Appendice 3, pour les vols effectués au-dessus du niveau de vol 410.
Note.— Cette disposition n’interdit pas aux avions en vol supersonique d’utiliser des techniques de croisière ascendante.
Le premier niveau utilisable doit ménager une marge d’au moins 150 m (500 pieds) au-dessus du plus haut des deux niveaux suivants 900 m (3 000 pieds) au-dessus du niveau moyen de la mer ou 300 m (1 000 pieds) au-dessus de la surface.
5.3.2 Communications
Un aéronef en régime IFR hors de l’espace aérien contrôlé établit des communications bilatérales avec l’organisme des services de la circulation aérienne assurant le service d’information de vol et garde l’écoute des communications vocales air-sol sur le canal de communication approprié.
Note.— Voir les Notes qui font suite à 3.6.5.1.
5.3.3 Comptes rendus de position
Un aéronef en vol IFR hors de l’espace aérien contrôlé :
- dépose un plan de vol,
- garde l’écoute des communications vocales air-sol sur le canal de communication approprié et établit, s’il y a lieu, des communications bilatérales avec l’organisme des services de la circulation aérienne assurant le service d’information de vol,
- rend compte de sa position conformément aux dispositions de 3.6.3 sur les vols contrôlés.
Note.— Les aéronefs désirant faire usage du service consultatif de la circulation aérienne lorsqu’ils sont en vol à l’intérieur d’un espace aérien à service consultatif doivent se conformer aux dispositions de 3.6 ; toutefois, leur plan de vol et les modifications à ce plan de vol ne font pas l’objet d’autorisations et une liaison bilatérale est maintenue avec l’organisme assurant le service consultatif de la circulation aérienne.
Two main things:
- no IFR OCAS under Surface S + 500ft (surface S being the highest between 3000 AMSL and 1000 AGL).
- IFR OCAS should keep communication with corresponding FIS
Last thing I wanted to share, about departing from uncontrolled airfield with published SID (outside ATC hours for example).
I’ve generally been able to call from the ground the nearest ATC, explaining I had not taken off yet, and that I had an IFR flight plan. That way I would get the IFR clearance from the ground, including the SID (from the active QFU I gave him).
I am sure @Guillaume will give us some good informations on this.
