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Flight plan within France

I think I only had one or two flights in my PPL training using the airways, IIRC to learn how to use the VOR and/or VFR on top. Generally flying in France it’s easier to draw a straight line on the map (avoiding Ps of course) rather than following a set route. The only time post-PPL I’ve used them is via STP and MERLU going to Calvi and Propriano.

I know a couple of English pilots who file flightplans on internal flights in France because it apparently makes talking to enroute FIS/ATC easier, although I can’t see how this would make a difference. I also know many UK pilots that don’t do the second Schengen stop when going home.

EGHO-LFQF-KCLW, United Kingdom

I also know many UK pilots that don’t do the second Schengen stop when going home.

Until about 10 years ago it was the default position for UK pilots to:

  • not file the GAR form
  • not worry about customs/immigration
  • not worry about PNR/PPR

The GAR suddenly started to get enforced rigidly at some point within the last 10 years.
Customs/immigration is still largely not enforced anywhere – IF there is no police at the airport in question (and often if there is, they don’t care anyway because they are checking all passports anyway – example: LFAT). Even today, on a flight back to the UK, if you file for a customs stop in N France and then divert to the UK, they can’t do anything anyway (so long as you do it rarely) because it is the captain’s right to make that decision and they can’t prove his actual flight conditions.
PNR/PPR is rarely enforced except in some southern countries which can deny a landing clearance.

I know a couple of English pilots who file flightplans on internal flights in France because it apparently makes talking to enroute FIS/ATC easier, although I can’t see how this would make a difference

AFAIK France has an ATC setup whereby ATC see all flight plans filed by everybody. This came to light when the first tablet apps appeared (PocketFMS, later EasyVFR, and Skydemon) which were used for VFR FP filing, and they had to implement the correct AFTN addressing (one address, or departure ARO only, or both ends of the flight, or whatever) and they didn’t initially get it right, causing many flight plans to be discarded, or just cause annoyance within ATC because they got multiple copies of it (this was a particular case in France which wanted it sent to just one address). Therefore I am fairly sure the flight plan can be helpful for long flights; perhaps @Guillaume might confirm?

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Are the AIP airport times in local or Z ?

UTC.
Same in Notams etc.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

The veterans at the aéroclub bar used to get notams, weather, immigration etc by fax (Minitel was a revolution), so there’s no excuse nowadays with tablets, mobile data, user-friendly flight planning apps etc. I’ve always been very sceptical of the ‘cross channel checkouts’ offered by UK flying schools, but maybe there was a need for them

A couple of people at work used to do a lot of sailing, and they can’t believe you have to file a flightplan and notify customs. Their cruising speed was about 6kt so personally I’d rather do the extra paperwork on a cross channel lunch

Being able to see relevant flightplans is good, as ATC have the information already and can expect a couple of ongleesh (and take a rest break if necessary)

EGHO-LFQF-KCLW, United Kingdom

VFR FPL are sent to a central ARO (aka “BRIA” in France) via AFTN, Fax, phone call or using the Olivia web service.
Then in the BRIA, a human operator sends to the FPL to the relevant ATS unit via AFTN.
If an ATS unit has not received the FPL they can call the BRIA.

How is the “relevance” determined? Is it all enroute units along the filed route, plus the departure and destination?

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

This sounds like a real person looks at the flight plans and decides where they’re sent..?

I always used to file flightplans by phone, but it got a bit harder a couple of years ago – I think some regional offices were closed and for international flights Le Bourget BRIA would say ring Bordeau, who would say to ring Le Bourget… I then used Olivia for a while, but it stopped accepting flights originating in the UK. I’ve never tried using fax or AFTN, but Skydemon on the ipad works well (at a small cost).

EGHO-LFQF-KCLW, United Kingdom

What wrote above is only valid for VFR FPL.
IFR FPL are computer processed, adressed and flight progression is monitored.
@Peter
Basically yes.
There might be exception like additional military adressing in some rare cases.
For instance, Tour (LFOT) would require adressing to both civil and military unit according to AIP : LFOTZPZX (MIL) – LFOTXHAX (CIV)

@Capitaine
The general international rule is that you should use the ARO of your departing field.
Skydemon, eurofpl, autourouter send their VFR FPL via AFTN to the main French central ARO (LFPBZPZX) where it is manually processed.

LFOTZPZX (MIL) – LFOTXHAX (CIV)

Would that be reversed i.e. LFOTZPZX (CIV) – LFOTXHAX (MIL)? When I used to do this stuff on AFPEX I sent everything to both xxxxZPZX and xxxxZTZX

The general international rule is that you should use the ARO of your departing field.

Indeed, though that breaks down in much of Europe, especially the UK, and it always did, quite often.

BTW Skydemon use EuroFPL.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom
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