Planning Flight to Greece - seems much easier now!

Greek AOPA ++++1

I copy email exchange, I hope it won’t put a mess on topic :

Kyprianos Biris <[email protected]>
10:04 (Il y a 7 heures)

À moi, AOPA
Dear Pierre

I just talked on the phone with the employee on shift at SKYSERV Sitia and also emailed them.

It seems it is clear now … and Mrs. Remountaki shall also be informed when she comes back on shift.

By the time you come (most probably by Tuesday) they will have replied you confirming the charge is 35 Euro + VAT since you have AOPA Card.

Thank you for informing us and if there is any other problem email us back.

Regards,

Kyprianos Biris
VP AOPA Hellas
[email protected]
www.aopa.gr

On Sun, May 31, 2015 at 10:54 AM, Pierre Philippe GARRY <[email protected]> wrote:
Dear Kyprianos,

Thank you very much for your fast reply.
I will arrive in Sitia 5th of August
Call sign F-GMJE
a ROBIN DR360 (1MTOW)

I will give these info at SKYSERVE on my side also.
Thank you for your efficiency !

Waiting for the pleasure to fly in Greece !

Pierre Philippe GARRY

Envoyé de mon iPad

Le 31 mai 2015 à 09:43, Kyprianos Biris <[email protected]> a écrit :

Dear Philippe

When are you planning to fly to LGST ?

You don’t need to worry about announcing your arrival. Handling agent takes care of everything as long as you give them dates and times.

I will contact Sitia SKYSERV directly or their manager Mrs. Vassalou about the discount policy.
She is the one who has issued the AOPA Discount letter.

Regards,

Kyprianos Biris
VP AOPA Hellas
[email protected]
www.aopa.gr

On Sat, May 30, 2015 at 11:26 PM, Pierre Philippe GARRY <[email protected]> wrote:
Dear Sir,

Just for your information, the below exchange. The doc I’m speaking about is the email I download on your website.

It doesn’t matter just for my handling fees but I prefer to inform you to help our AOPA community to improve the handling company understanding of general aviation…..

Thank you for your work !

Pierre Philippe GARRY

Envoyé de mon iPad

Début du message transféré :

Expéditeur: JSH Ops <[email protected]>
Date: 30 mai 2015 16:42:42 UTC+2
Destinataire: Pierre Philippe GARRY <[email protected]>
Cc: JSH Station Manager <[email protected]>
Objet: Rép : handling request

Dear Mr Pierre Philippe Garry,
I would like to inform you that the latest information we have confirms that there is no discount on the price for the AOPA members except of training flights.
Kind regards,

SKYSERVE
Remountaki Stefania
Pax Service
Skyserv Handling Services (Former-Olympic Handling)
[email protected]
Sitia Airport
Tel: +30 28430 24666
Fax: +30 28430 25998
Mob:+30 6936 093 897
www.skyserv.aero

From: Pierre Philippe GARRY [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2015 11:45 AM
To: JSH Ops
Subject: Re: handling request

Dear Stephania,

Any information on your side ?
Can you tell me how to declare my arrival in LGST

Enjoy your weekend

Pierre Philippe GARRY

Envoyé de mon iPad

Le 5 mai 2015 à 19:03, Pierre Philippe Garry <[email protected]> a écrit :

Dear Stephania,

doc enclose dated 23th january seems to indicate opposite…
Can you please check with Skyserv manager ? I will ask to AOPA on my side, I may be wrong.

Have a nice evening

Pierre Philippe GARRY

2015-05-05 14:29 GMT+02:00 JSH Ops <[email protected]>:
Dear Mr Pierre Philippe Garry,

I would like to inform you that there is no discount on the price for the AOPA members except of training flights.

Kind regards,

SKYSERVE
Remountaki Stefania
Pax Service
Skyserv Handling Services (Former-Olympic Handling)
[email protected]
Sitia Airport
Tel: +30 28430 24666
Fax: +30 28430 25998
Mob:+30 6936 093 897
www.skyserv.aero

From: Pierre Philippe GARRY [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Sunday, May 03, 2015 9:43 PM
To: JSH Ops
Cc: JSH Station Manager; BUSAV
Subject: Re: handling request

Dear Stefania,

Thank you for all informations, very precise and responding to all my questions..
Can you confirm discount price for Greek AOPA Members ? I rode 35€ on AOPA website.
(Notice my plane is a very small woody plane and I need no service like ramp or sophisticated handling)

I will be happy to request your services. Can you give me the way to declare my arrival on LGST to your local team.

Efcharisto para poli

Pierre Philippe Garry

Wonderful service from AOPA GR!

Just to end it I received a confirmation from SKYSERVE :

Dear Mr Pierre Philippe Garry,

We acknowledge and confirm your request.
I would also like to inform you that we got the permission for the discount of AOPA members.
We would like to know about the date of arriving and departure.

Kind regards,

PPG

Yes, but the more important point is: someone was either trying to fleece you (probable) or the person you wrote to didn’t know the own price agreements (less likely).
Speaks volumes about Skyserve at Sitia. Unfortunately, there does not seem to be another handler at Sitia.

The “problem” which handling agents have is that most of their customers are trying to avoid them.

Hence we keep hearing stories of silly behaviour where they charge you €100 or whatever for a 100m bus ride, which no reasonable person would charge you for.

I would not like to be in business where most people hate you but have to use you because you have them over a barrel, but then I am in the fortunate position of not being in such a business. For most people, a job pays the mortgage and the food etc and they do what they need to do…

You’re right but often all of us are not trying all the time to avoid to pay small amounts, but we just want to pay a normal price for the service we need or which is provided.
In France, there is a lot of small airfields without any taxe or for sure handling, but of course there is people, often volonteers to maintain it, I always give something for the local aeroclub, because I know things are not free, even if they don t ask anything.
Two years ago on my small grass strip we remove all the small stones by hand. 1000 m for some plane or pilot it can be short, but when you walk on it removing small stones… It is very long !
For me paying is normal but to be fleeced (as boscomamtico said) no…..
We never hate the guy who collect the taxe, but the system which prefer to avoid small aircrafts.
I am not very experienced, but I know some reasonables airports with a very good service, not free but I’m always happy to go and pay. Cannes, Bron, La Rochelle, Avignon, Aix….etc

We try to avoid unfare handling invoices….. Specially as mentioned when there is only one handling agent…

PPG

Ok here’s the story on Greek Handling companies, or at least as much as can be written in an open forum.

Years ago there used to be only Olympic Handling serving Olympic Airways and everybody else who flew in everywhere, a monopoly in air and ground.
Humanity! evolved and it became an open market under strict requirements off course as to the required standards and who gets approved to provide handling.

Aegean Airlines evolved as the biggest carrier in Greece for inland and abroad, the monopoly in air was history and together ground handling companies popped up.
Many applicants were dropped by CAA due to non conformances but approved GOLDAIR and SWISSPORT took a big piece of the pie.
Old Olympic Airways was (lets call it) dissolved and the much smaller new Olympic Airlines continued its work but it was peanuts in relation to the past work.
[Greek readers correct me where/if I’m wrong]

SKYSERV handling was the new company name of ex Olympic handling after getting a considerable “clean up” and acting thereafter as a private company like all others.
Still, whatever clean up you do there are always employees/ethos/operating practices from the past status who/which remain until retirement of the old league and takes some effort (from others) to change.
Main reason is that in provincial airports of small islands or mainland cities the whole airport (ground handling) show was/is done by the very same 2~3 persons for a lifetime.
The same persons have remained there regardless of the changes in names, management, ownership etc.

GOLDAIR & SWISSPORT who came in the market as purely private client serving companies, serve in many airports with multiple air traffic along with SKYSERV but not the small provincial ones, Milos LGML type. There SKYSERV retains the handling. There are many reasons that in these “loss making” small airports there are no multiple handlers but the main one is the very small traffic share they have and namely the one, or max two, turboprop (Olympic Dash 8) airline flight per day and that’s it.

So there have been stories in the recent past where SKYSERV has displayed a “moment of inertia” to change in acting like a competitive private company.

When Olympic was sole handler they had a contract with AOPA to provide discount to AOPA card holders. When AOPA signed agreements with the two new handlers SKYSERV dropped out and refused to provide discount (terminated the contract) since General Aviation was a nuisance to them anyway! It took some years and efforts from AOPA Greece to get them back in serving GA (AOPA members) with discount since the 80~90 Euro standard charge was a joke for an empty provincial airport where pilots are obliged to accept the marshaling and escort to the terminal.
In the end SKYSERV agreed to provide a half price for all GA regardless of AOPA or not because they did not want to sign agreements etc. and to get in to discussions of why to AOPA only and not everyone. FYI there are pilots who are not AOPA members and react heavily in the standard handling charges (of 70~90 Euro) and this is what pisses off most companies since they are in the middle of an obligatory status imposed by CAA and the end user and they get all the flames.

Note: CAA imposed the Handling obligatory “where available” status years ago because in the past CAA airport officers had to escort/drive with CAA car or by foot the GA crew & pax apron <→ terminal but the issue was not the drive/walk but the responsibility and liability. They wanted it off their back and some other entity to be assigned the responsibility. Big story, no need for the endless discussion on this ! So don’t wonder why the need of handling in an empty provincial apron, its the above issue. CAA is state employee, Handler is a private company employee.

SKYSERV change (in GA discount) took – and still takes – some effort to implement because even though Head Office in Athens theoretically sent the information to all stations, for some reason some employees in the province have not … understood/received/whatever … it.
On the other hand if there is no airline traffic in those small provincial airports and the airport is open but empty most probably SKYSERV won’t bother you neither will CAA for handling. Its a local attitude on the issue which is not documented.

Recent (years’) complaints from pilots re. SKYSERV have come from their Ioannina LGIO & Skyros LGSY regarding pricing but all were resolved quickly with some communication.

The Handling subject in Greece is presented in para. #12 of www.aopa.gr/info where the essential details can be found in the Current Prices & Terms Offered part at bottom. There you can see where SKYSERV is operating alone and where others share the pie.

In my personal opinion, especially for a visitor from abroad, handling company is a great help but off course (it should be) at a reasonable charge.
All if not 99% of them respond quickly via email and even though they officially provide only marshaling and escort to terminal for the GA fleet, they will always facilitate most things you ask them for that have to do with airport or local information. This is great help for someone who is not familiar with the area or the airport.

In my personal opinion, especially for a visitor from abroad, handling company is a great help but off course (it should be) at a reasonable charge.

I can see how it provides value in e.g. Iraklion which is a complex airport but not at e.g. Sitia which is a small airport without any traffic at all. I think it’s a bad joke that the barely open Sitia now costs more money than H24 Iraklion.

When I was in Sitia last time, a handling agent approached me and I sent him off (not knowing about the new mandatory handling). As a punishment they let me wait on the apron for an hour until the AFIS picked me up in his car. Then there was the incident with the jetblast. I really think that Sitia has lost most of its attractiveness as a GA airfield. I have to say that I used the airports only as a stop on longer trips.