“Presumably Eurocontrol route charges can be paid only by a bank transfer?”
I’ve just taken over the account of our Syndicate. The previous guy wasn’t a computer enthusiast.
After a lot of online confusion, Virgin Money, who took over the bank, say I can’t do online banking. Hangarage is a standing order, but it looks like landing fees will have to be cheques.
VM say a Club account must have 2 signatories, which we have, and this makes internet banking impermissible.
May become a problem with the viral carrying ability of paper cheques.
Hi all,
I’m planning a trip to Europe in a couple of weeks in a (private) Canadian registered Cessna 310. Unfortunately the MTOW of my plane is above the 2 kg Eurcontrol cut off for ‘free IFR flying’.
Are there any tips or tricks to minimize these costs?
I came up with the following situations/questions, but I’d love to learn more.
1) If you are planning a flight and you only expect to need an IFR clearance for an approach at destination, can you fly 400 NM VFR ‘for free’ and then get an IFR clearance for 10 minutes and only get charged for that last part?
2) I’ve read some weird topics here about IFR flying the UK, that an IFR flight plan doesn’t really guarantee you’ll actually be treated as an IFR airplane by ATC. Not sure if this is related to the Eurcontrol ATC fee discussion at all?
3) Is there an online calculator somewhere to calculate IFR Eurocontrol fees? Their website allows you to download a database and an a program, but I can’t seem to get it to work. Seems like a fairly archaic piece of software….
In case it matters, I’d be flying through the countries Canada, Greenland, Iceland, Faroe, Schotland, UK, Ireland, Belgium, Germany, Norway, Shetland Islands.
Thank you for any advice!
Kind regards,
digits
On 1) yes, you can, but it tends to be a hassle. The main attraction of IFR flying in Europe is enroute, where that is easier (at least in some countries) than VFR. For the landing, you will find that instrument approaches are usually not useful because
In the grand scheme of such a trip, te 50€/100€ per flight hour will not make a difference.
1) Yes. You pay for the filed IFR parts in your route. The main issue is that you will practically be stuck below FL195 (e.g. in France) or lower in other countries flying VFR. And also, if you’re not familiar with the airspace structures in the respective countries, it can be a big planning effort, and risk of busting restricted or controlled airspace.
3) Autorouter can calculate the estimated route charges for the flight plan. For flying IFR in Europe, you’ll need this anyway (Foreflight works OK as well, but sometimes it still doesn’t find a route). So my advice is that you should set up your aircraft in Autorouter and familiarize yourself with it.
digits wrote:
1) If you are planning a flight and you only expect to need an IFR clearance for an approach at destination, can you fly 400 NM VFR ‘for free’ and then get an IFR clearance for 10 minutes and only get charged for that last part?
AFAIK you are billed according to what is in your flight plan. Meaning if you get an IFR clearance earlier than what you put has IFR start in your flightplan, or if you don’t cancel IFR on a segment that you filed as VFR, or such tricks, then you will “pay” only for the part that was actually IFR in your flightplan.
However, expect that getting an IFR clearance that was not as per your flightplan will take quite some time (on the order of magnitude of 30 min), and you may get a quite non-optimised/lengthy route. (Obviously a mayday for having inadvertently entered IMC while under VFR will get you IFR much faster, but don’t play games with emergencies. A report needs to be filed, by ATC and by the pilot, see https://aviationreporting.eu/, for each emergency. Also don’t shy away from declaring an emergency because of that, under “just culture” system you are supposed not to get into trouble for it; Switzerland is an exception. In Switzerland, don’t give the prosecution any more info that you absolutely have to.)
Note that any area controlled by any ATC unit whose callsign is “Paris” has a ever renewed NOTAM that limits VFR to FL125 or so. That’s maybe a third of France or so. The theoretical limit elsewhere is FL195, but e.g. in Germany I’ve found that getting a VFR clearance to climb above FL100 (the start of nationwide class C) is a 50% chance.
digits wrote:
2) I’ve read some weird topics here about IFR flying the UK, that an IFR flight plan doesn’t really guarantee you’ll actually be treated as an IFR airplane by ATC. Not sure if this is related to the Eurcontrol ATC fee discussion at all?
In the UK, if you expect to get any service from ATC beyond giving you the regional QNH, plan your whole route inside controlled airspace, and around London there is some minimum flight level, others will fill in. On the other hand, you are allowed to fly IFR (enter clouds) in class G without any clearance and without speaking to ATC, and people really do it. Most other countries (let’s say Western, Central, South and Eastern Europe) tend to not have in their culture the concept of non-controlled IFR flight… but EU law has forced it down their throat, it is allowed everywhere. The airspace structure may make that point moot, as in Germany that has nationwide class E starting at 1000 ft AGL (higher in mountainous areas).
Not related to Eurocontrol fees AFAIK.
digits wrote:
3) Is there an online calculator somewhere to calculate IFR Eurocontrol fees?
autorouter.aero will show an estimation. And will generate a valid and optimised route for you, which is basically not any more doable by hand. Too many restrictions and rules.
boscomantico wrote:
unless it’s for business, one usually doesn‘t fly somewhere where the weather isn‘t good
I disagree. IFR approaches and departures are great for this piercing the “low thin layer of clouds” that grounds you if you fly VFR. The weather may not be “sunny”, but it can be quite nice anyway. Plus my idea of “pleasure” is also visiting a museum or so, and that is not weather dependent.
boscomantico wrote:
special VFR is usually readily available
In my understanding, special VFR exists only for controlled airfields and these are likely to have IFR approaches and departures anyway?
boscomantico wrote:
small airports don‘t have IAPs anyway
Very small ones don’t, but there is still a smattering of “small regional” airports with IAPs.
Thank you all for the information!
Some additional info:
- My C310 is non turbocharged, it’s a light piston twin. Ideally I’d fly around FL100, but it could do FL140 if necessary
- I wasn’t hinting at abusing emergencies, not planning on doing anything like that at all!
- If weather is above minima at the destination, I wouldn’t shy away from IMC weather to shoot an approach. The main goal from the trip is to go from A to B, not so much the sight seeing while flying (Although of course always a plus ;-) 0
- I’d be quite sensitive to a 100 eur / flying hour extra charge if I can avoid it…
Maybe @Pilot_DAR knows if it’s possible (and how) to do a MTOW reduction modification within the remaining weeks?
Generate IFR routings in Foreflight and file them as VFR. Sound professional on the radio and ask for controlled VFR. Most countries have „INFO“ frequencies and if you give them your route they’ll arrange airspace transits.
Reducing the MTOW for this plane likely won’t help. Eurocontrol rules say they use the MTOW of the model, not the individual plane.
I like the idea though :-D
