I didn’t imply it is the same thing.
Within schengen countries no immigration is required.
Within EU, freedom of movement of people, capital and goods applies.
Both Schengen + EU FoM is available in Greece, so the question remains why Greece requires airports of entry/exit?
Yes there is a lot of border between France and Italy and most if not all of the border posts have gone.
What happens is increased police coverage in certain areas combined with intelligence.
Often groups of migrants are stopped well away from the border itself.
At times when this migration and immigration checks put a Schengen suspension in place there is often lots of television coverage along with diplomatic tension between the 2 countries.
Plus lots of “charities” making sure that the migrants are properly treated. Difficult when the job of the border police is to turn these desperate people back to Italy when all they want to do is get to the UK, Germany, the Netherlands and Belgium..
Snoopy wrote:
so the question remains why Greece requires airports of entry/exit
Because they still enforce a old NATIONAL Customs Legislation ignoring recent European developments in Freedom of movement within Schengen.
See Paragraph 13 of www.aopa.gr/Info
Customs in Greece turn up only at Airports of Entry, not local (municipal etc.) airports/airfields.
But enforcing customs is in violation of EU law, even more so since recent (last year) changes: Implementation of (EU) 2015/2446 as amended by (EU) 2020/877
Flights within Schengen, even from non EU, (due to absence of immigration requirement) may land at any EU airfield/airport when there is nothing to declare. Even before above quoted change, there was obviously no customs requirement for intra EU flights.
Why is Greece doing this?
Snoopy wrote:
Why is Greece doing this?
Its not Greece in general, its the Customs force.They (act and) feel they’re the untouchables, above and “foreign” legislation.
They still live in the 70’s.
Would be interesting to see someone applying EU law directly – the customs folks might win a lower levels, but certainly lose the case at high court or the European court.
You just have to do this with a plane that you don’t mind to be impounded in the meantime ;-)
Alternatively, a high profile figure who get’s things resolved faster. Mr Merz (head of the opposition in Germany, and a lawyer) in his DA62 springs to mind :-)
petakas wrote:
Its not Greece in general, its the Customs force.They (act and) feel they’re the untouchables, above and “foreign” legislation.
They still live in the 70’s.
How about AOPA Greece flies to a small field from abroad to make a case?
How about AOPA Greece flies to a small field from abroad to make a case?
And to lose the aircraft until wins the case at some EU high court? I don’t think anyone from GA is ready for such game.
Why is Greece doing this?
The simple answer, like most explanations for why X is doing something odd in a “relationship” is “because they can”. Politics is the art of the possible (Otto von Bismarck).
Greece, and the Hellenic culture and history, is seen as one of the cradles of the European civilisation, and having Greece in the club has very strong symbolic value in Brussels. That is why Greece was admitted to the EU despite its accounts having been comprehensively cooked by Goldman Sachs. And it is free to disregard EU directives as it wishes. It was all done in the knowledge that if it all turns sour – as it did, inevitably given the size of the loans – it doesn’t matter because Greece is way too small to cause financial trouble in the EU as a whole. Brussels was able to shaft Greece over (the fraport revenue extraction is just a tiny part of that) but it could not have risked that with say Italy because Italy is too big a potato to swallow if it blows up. A default was only narrowly avoided.
And to lose the aircraft until wins the case at some EU high court? I don’t think anyone from GA is ready for such game.
Exactly, and look at the reluctance in Germany (other thread) to test another Customs related EU directive there.
I’ve been flying to Greece since 2004 and actually very little has changed, apart from fraport screwing pilots at ~16 airports in 2016, and a small number of changes at places like LGSO, LGKC and LGIO.
petakas wrote:
Its not Greece in general, its the Customs force.They (act and) feel they’re the untouchables, above and “foreign” legislation.
They still live in the 70’s.
It’s basically just another example why bullying nearly always works as long as you don’t piss off people more powerfull than the bully.
s
I recall trying to pay a parking fine for my rental car in Korfu in the 80ties only to find that it took 2 days and trips to10 or more offices.
Peter wrote:
The simple answer, like most explanations for why X is doing something odd in a “relationship” is “because they can”. Politics is the art of the possible (Otto von Bismarck).
Exactly.
Nobody is interested to have their airplanes taken hostage to proove a point. But that is exactly what will most likely happen.
The “best” think to happen is if someone prominent with a lot of clout would inadvertedly run afoul of them without them realizing who they are dealing with. But that is quite difficult to achieve in the best of times. And even if they got a verdict from a EU court, who would guarantee that they would adhere to it or at best pay the fine and carry on as before?
