Snoopy wrote:
I’d guess a <5700kg twin turbine will be operated NCO for owner flown ops and AOC for commercial flights?
Yes, it would by the derogation although it is actually a complex aircraft. But NCO.GEN.104 till talks about other-than-complex. So the question is if the derogation also carries “into” part-NCO. I can very well imagine that the intention is that NCO.GEN.104 apply also to light twin turboprops but that EASA missed that paragraph when the derogation was introduced. I would check with EASA or the national CAA.
lionel wrote:
He meant NCO.GEN.104
Yes, sorry. @Peter, can you edit my post 8 (and also Snoopy’s post 10) to avoid further confusion.
@airborne_again NCO.GEN.104 → Transport of dangerous goods?
I’d guess a <5700kg twin turbine will be operated NCO for owner flown ops and AOC for commercial flights?
Airworthiness remains Part M.
Would be interesting to put a MEP on an AOC. NCO vs AOC for ops as well as for airworthiness, however AOC requires Part M which will be required continuously and thus override any excursions to ML :).
Iptamenos wrote:
I am intending to hopefully do this with a king air 90 now that I have the type rating.
Then the rules are a bit tricky to interpret. A King Air is EASA complex, however by a derogation (article 6, para. 8 of the Air Ops cover regulation) twin turboprops with a MTOM of at most 5700 kg shall be operated noncommercially according to part-NCO. However NCO.GEN.140 does not apply to complex aircraft! You may want to ask EASA how the rules should be understood in that case.
(Some King Airs do have a MTOM above 5700 kg so they shall be operated noncommercially according to part-NCC.)
lionel wrote:
It seems to be allowed for complex aircraft, too. Obviously the non-commercial operator is then subject to Part-NCC, not Part-NCO.
I did a quick scan of part-NCC and could not see anything corresponding to NCO.GEN.104 – but then I’m really not familiar with part-NCC.
All,fantastic feedback,thankyou very much indeed..you have confirmed my ad hoc info…also supplied me with ref for rules to read.
I am intending to hopefully do this with a king air 90 now that I have the type rating.
Happy Landings all.
IIptamenos wrote:
If you own an aircraft,which is registered in an AOC which is flown by CPilots for revenue thru the AOC,can the owner then,who is not CP licensed fly the aircraft for non revenue/commercial flights for personal use?
Yes you can. I do both AOC and NCC flights with the Learjet. When doing an NCC flight, I need to pay excise tax and VAT on the fuel, so I tend to fly AOC unless
- there’s a performance requirement at the airfield forcing NCC. It’s 1.67x landing distance under AOC.
- I’m not ATPL and want to be in command. Not the case for me anymore but could be for you.
Note that even when flying non commercial, the plane is managed by the management company responsible for AOC. So they will file flight plan, plan fuel, performance and do the finances. I see that as an extra layer of safety. One can’t just get in and go.
It seems to be allowed for complex aircraft, too. Obviously the non-commercial operator is then subject to Part-NCC, not Part-NCO. ORO.GEN.310 clearly envisions this:
(a) Aircraft listed on an operator’s AOC may remain on the AOC if it is operated in any of the
following situations:
(2) by other operators, for non-commercial operations with motor-powered aircraft or for
specialised operations performed in accordance with Annex VI (Part-NCC), Annex VII
(Part-NCO) or Annex VIII (Part-SPO), provided that the aircraft is used for a continuous
period not exceeding 30 days
Iptamenos wrote:
If you own an aircraft,which is registered in an AOC which is flown by CPilots for revenue thru the AOC,can the owner then,who is not CP licensed fly the aircraft for non revenue/commercial flights for personal use?If so,which I suspect it is so,what are the restrictions/obligations associated with this set up.
Yes, you can, as long as the aircraft is not complex (in the EASA sense – no jet engines, not more than one turboprop engine, single pilot, MTOM not greater than 5700 kg, certified with at most 19 passenger seats).
You can find the rules in NCO.GEN.104. Be sure to also check the AMC/GM. The rules mainly concern the handover of the aircraft between the commercial and the non-commercial operators.
