"European FBOs"

Don't confuse GA with GA :-)

I know... there is a demand for comfortable facilities.

The problem is that at most "mandatory handling" places one doesn't get that much of that type of traffic. Where I am based, you get a PC12 or KA turn up, with passengers who have just spent €10,000 and expect appropriate facilities, a few times a year...

But the management seizes on this opportunity to make handling mandatory.

The argument is that if they didn't make it mandatory, it would not be viable. Which I am sure is true

Exactly this, with exactly this argument, is what has brought mandatory >2500kg handling to my local.

Unfortunately, this, in turn, has practically killed off 2500kg+ visitors - other than ones going for maintenance who are exempt. 2.5T+ owners (say, a 421C) are used to paying quite a bit everywhere they go but once the landing fee goes into 3 digits they start to think twice about it.

For turboprop/jet owners, it would probably be true that they are paying such a lot to fly (€500/hr+ baseline for a TBM) that they couldn't care less about a €200 landing charge, but from what I see very few of those are doing casual trips on a nice sunny day.

So the result is that the airport loses a lot of business.

I also know a couple of pilots of KAs and bizjets who say that, suprisingly, a good % of their clients do not want the €500 handling experience. They would rather keep the money.

Ljubljana and Portoroz (Slovenia)

Besides these two extremely friendly ones I can add Graz which is also in vicinity.

Hello!

Peter: Nobody in GA "needs" FBOs.

Don't confuse GA with GA :-)

There are GA pilots who fly privately, they may or may not need handling services.

And then there are those GA pilots who fly commercially, either as corporate pilots or within a public transport operation (AOC). We (the latter ones) need handling! Otherwise we will not be able to provide the level of service and care to our passengers that they pay for. You simply cannot walk a group of "VIP"s over the apron (after having dressed them in hi-viz-jackets when in the UK...) and drop them in front of some airport building in the middle of nowhere.

We also need a place to stay warm and comfortable while waiting for our - most often delayed - passengers. Sometimes the duty time regulations call for crew rest facilities. Food and drink for crews, catering for the passengers on the return trip, filing and delaying of flight plans, ground power for some aircraft - all these are essential services provided by handling agents.

You seem to be asking why Germans love certificates. Political history is outside my area of expertise, but I've heard the credit being given to Bismarck more than once. :)

Actually, the noise certificate is not a bad thing per se. When airports are under attack by locals in Germany, then often the solution is that the airport further encourages quiet airplanes. They might increase the landing fees for aircraft that are not in the quietest category, prohibit touch and go operations of noisy aircraft, not accept stationing such airplanes, etc. Neighbors usually accept the difference between quiet aircraft and noisy ones.

Those strict noise abatement rules are also the reason there are virtually no Tupolevs landing in Germany. Too bad, I always liked those.

For foreign aircraft, it's sometimes hard to establish the noise level. The easiest solution is to issue one for yourself using an FAA form you can download. Some airports have more or less correct lists. Sometimes you have to argue.

Can someone be kind enough to tell me how we produce the certificate referred to please? Is the spreadsheet available anywhere?

thanks

With FBO do you mean something like that:

"Aircraft, crew and guests are all well taken care of.

The services we offer for pilots and aircraft range from diverse parking facilities, border control and customs clearance to the sale of tax-exempt fuel (JET A-1). Our tow vehicle can pull aircraft of up to 12 tonnes to any location on the airfield.

A pilots’ relaxation room with shower and TV, as well as a flight preparation room with the latest mapping material, internet access to METI and AIS, fax and telephone make it easy for pilots to prepare for their next flight.

Of course, free WLAN access is available in the terminal building.

We offer a flexible shuttle service for passengers and crew - on request directly from the apron.

Our services also include hotel reservations and transport arrangements, as well as coordinating catering.

Our comfortable lounge or the conference room in the terminal building are particularly suitable for small meetings, both with catering provided if desired."

???

This is form my home airport EDAZ (Schönhagen), close to Berlin.

Highly recomended.

But it has a noise dependent landing fee (like pretty much all German GA airports I know) and they will charge you the higher fee if you can not produce a document as proof. From the multitude of GA airports around the capital this is the most professional one.

Nevertheless, EDAY is probably even a bit more convenient with public transportation within walking distance, bringing you directly into the heart of the city for only €3, and also offering all basic facilities without extra charge.

Forgot to mention in my previous post that also Salzburg Airport (LOWS) is an excellent if not cheap stopover.

Why do I need the noise certificate, when that spreadsheet (which I have seen in a paper book form at a few places; Stuttgart comes to mind this year) shows that any version of a TB20 will be below the limit?

You seem to be asking why Germans love certificates. Political history is outside my area of expertise, but I've heard the credit being given to Bismarck more than once. :)

For the TB-20, the limits depend on whether you have a 1335 kg version (77.8) or a 1400 kg version (78.7). Without the hush kits it comes out typically at -4.7 or -4.9.

Many thanks BW - interesting.

AIUI -4.9db(A) is quieter than -4db(A) so what does this mean?

Why do I need the noise certificate, when that spreadsheet (which I have seen in a paper book form at a few places; Stuttgart comes to mind this year) shows that any version of a TB20 will be below the limit?

Or do different German or Swiss airports have different limits?