Customs - what would you do?

Historically, “customs” as used in aviation internationally always meant both functions.

It is only in the very small bit of the world called Europe that the two got separated, by schengen, by some airports having only 1 of the 2 functions (due to job demarcation mainly; Croatia and the UK manage to use the same people for both, for GA), and by some countries having immigration-only on a PN (e.g. some in Italy and Germany).

We have to call it “something”

Peter wrote:

Historically, “customs” as used in aviation internationally always meant both functions.

It is only in the very small bit of the world called Europe that the two got separated, by schengen, by some airports having only 1 of the 2 functions (due to job demarcation mainly; Croatia and the UK manage to use the same people for both, for GA), and by some countries having immigration-only on a PN (e.g. some in Italy and Germany).

We have to call it “something”

I know. But as you can see it took almost 3 pages until even I started to consider that it is not the simple PPR customs thing, but an extra Schengen flight which requires immigration too. Which makes the “Stay there until we get there” order much more comprehensible.

And looking at some very adverse consequences, we here in Europe (such as in EUROga) should be aware of this, history nonwithstanding. As the German case where customs was left out even by the immigration authority resulting in that huge VAT claim shows painfully, one has to check every flight for both separately.

Went to UK 2 weeks ago no passport stamp either direction.
I was disappointed, all those empty pages.

it took almost 3 pages

I suggest setting a much longer page size in preferences I use 50.

Which makes the “Stay there until we get there” order much more comprehensible.

Well, we can debate it but can’t change it, but for the sake of a debate I would argue that who cares about leaving “euroland”? Even if you are carrying a €500k watch, the French police have no reason to give a toss. In fact legally they have exactly no reason to give a toss about exports, unless it is nuke tech, etc.

And if you are a bank robber, there are lots of ways to escape from France, like …. walking, cycling, skiing, hang-gliding, stealing a boat and sailing to the UK (where they will welcome you, especially if you can drive a truck ). Gosh even driving to Andorra during the rush hour would work

I was disappointed, all those empty pages.

Try LFAT while speaking English and wearing a yellow jacket – they do it with a smile

I would argue that who cares about leaving “euroland”? Even if you are carrying a €500k watch, the French police have no reason to give a toss. In fact legally they have exactly no reason to give a toss about exports, unless it is nuke tech, etc.

Legal reason available for consultation: https://www.interieur.gouv.fr/Archives/Archives-des-communiques-de-presse/2017-Communiques/Renforcement-des-controles-aux-frontieres-de-l-UE

Peter wrote:

Historically, “customs” as used in aviation internationally always meant both functions.

Customs officers can actually perform both functions (immigration and customs), however, the police is normally not allowed to perform customs duties. It also depends on the country of course. In Switzerland, you have the cantonal police, border forces and customs. While the cantonal police might do immigration and security checks at some airports, they are not allowed to perform customs duties. The border forces are allowed to do both (immigration and customs) as an official border protection authority, while Swiss customs is only allowed to perform customs checks.

In Germany, customs (“Zoll”) is responsible for goods / customs clearances. The federal police (“Bundespolizei”) is responsible for border protection and immigration, however, they can delegate the immigration tasks also to customs officers or even (on smaller airfields) to a “Flugleiter”. The regular state police is however not allowed to perform any immigration and/or customs checks. In the Netherlands, it’s kind of similar, the Dutch gendarmerie (“Maresschausee”) does immigration checks, while the “Douane” does customs checks.

Italy makes it even more difficult with “Guardia di Finanza”, “Dogana”, “Carabinieri”, “Polizia” etc. As far as I know, the “Guardia di Finanza” is the financial and customs police force, which also performs official border protection. They are everywhere in the country, but you see them especially when passing the land border from or into Switzerland. I’ve also met them upon arrival from Germany in Aosta (LIMW), as they wanted to check me even for an intra-EU flight, as they were there for another plane from Switzerland. However, after arrival from Croatia at Ancona (LIPY), I was checked by the “Polizia” for immigration and by the “Dogana” for customs, but not by the “Guardia di Finanza”. So it remains always a kind of a surprise, which authority you’ll meet in Italy. And I don’t even know which authority in civil clothes checked us before departure in Lido (LIPV).

there are lots of ways to escape from France, like …. walking

Indeed. The other day we drove up a mountain (Artzamendi) in the French Pays Basque. The road runs along the Spanish border. I wondered if there would be some kind of post-Covid restriction, even if it was only a piece of tape. Nothing. Not only can you drive back and forth, but there is even a French restaurant, signposted from the main road, which is actually in Spain.

Then I take back my advice to report them.