Frans wrote:
I’ve heard several negative stories about Mengen in general.
Only in regards of customs checks, which unfortunately is what we Swiss use Mengen for… other than that it is a lovely airfield with a good staff and a nice restaurant too. It is also IFR and quite good for training. (The unfortunate situation regarding the new AFIS Fees non-withstanding, which in any case is not limited to IFR).
The staff in Mengen were apologetic to us about the behaviour of the customs guys and through the lines told us that they were threatened with simple refusal of service if they keep insisting. Mind, this was years ago as I have avoided Mengen since.
I have been told by a Flugleiter at one of those airports that they have to be extremely strict with PPR in Germany, as they themselfs get in severe legal trouble on a personal level if customs so decide. My impression was, they are highly critical of the behaviour of certain agents but are scared to do anything out of fear of reprecussions such as loss of customs status.
Frans wrote:
Federal police in Germany is not customs and they are not so easily allowed to check all your baggage. In return: Customs is allowed to perform also passport checks.
The way I understood it is that certain police officers are in a double function as customs agents in one person. So they can do everything.
Frans wrote:
Personally, I do like the Swiss rule quite a lot on aerodromes how offer customs PNR/PPR: If customs/border police don’t show up at ETD (pre-departure) or ETA (post-arrival), you’re free to go.
Yes, I agree. It is very well organized and done and the police guys who do the function are very friendly.
The only problem with the Swiss rules are that very few airfields offer immigration. So if you want to fly to outside Schengen, you often need to do an unnecessary landing.
What would I do? I’d wait. As inconvenient and annoying as it may be, the implications of leaving when told not to, are probably not great if you ever have to return to that country.
The bigger question for me, is what to do afterwards. If you feel really put out by it, and feel it was unreasonable, then I think you should consider making a formal complaint. While Mooney Driver’s warnings might be real in some cases, usually if you keep escalating your complaint, such issues can be dealt with. But it is a lot of hassle.
For me, there are two issues. 1. The Delay. 2. What authority had they to get a non-customs official to detain you? They have plenty of authority to detain you themselves, but they weren’t there to do so. What authority do they have to get an airport clerk to detain you? None I would imagine. Perhaps the ‘higher ups’ need to point that out to the ‘minions’.
Mooney_Driver wrote:
And no, you can’t even do that, as the EOBT is dependent on the flight plan. The simple thing is, if they are not there, wait, get a new one.
Interesting cultural differences here. If I had met the notification etc. requirements to the letter and customs were not there by the EOBT. I would depart. No question about it. Customs frequently never bother to show up, so how should I know if they’re late or just not bother. If I had been informed about a delay, then it would be a different matter.
Airborne_Again wrote:
If I had met the notification etc. requirements to the letter and customs were not there by the EOBT. I would depart. No question about it. Customs frequently never bother to show up, so how should I know if they’re late or just not bother.
LFHNflightstudent wrote:
talk to the lady in the FBO who is super helpful as they always are in Annecy who informs me that customs will come to meet me.…..
the lady calls them twice, they are ‘’on their way’’ it is 0940 by the time they finally arrive….
had instructed the lady at the FBO to ‘’hold me’’
If I understand the OP correctly, the airport staff were informed that they would be coming. Therefore you could not assume they won’t turn up. They also had instructed the staff to prevent departure. So leaving would have been a violation of a direct order of a customs official. IMHO, had the OP departed, he would have gotten into massive legal trouble as well as future close scrutiny every time he passes through Anncy.
Interesting cultural differences here. If I had met the notification etc. requirements to the letter and customs were not there by the EOBT. I would depart. No question about it. Customs frequently never bother to show up, so how should I know if they’re late or just not bother. If I had been informed about a delay, then it would be a different matter.
I would too but in some countries that’s illegal; see the link I posted. In the UK you can definitely do it, so long as you have “notified a constable” which is normally via the GAR form.
The other thing to consider is that flying from France to the UK, you really do need the passport stamp to show you have left the country. Otherwise you may run in to problems when you attempt to return if they can’t find any record of you leaving…
We did that here. Not sure it can possibly work, for the reasons posted there. You would also get the same problem flying from the Schengen zone to anywhere outside e.g. Germany to Croatia, France to Ireland, etc – that’s an immigration issue which is arguably more “severe” than a customs issue (because a customs inspection is done right there and then and if nothing is found you are “good” while improper immigration status is with you for the rest of your life if the last pp stamp shows an entry and no exit 
).
If this isn’t an example, how blessed are those who don’t have to clear customs….
In this case I wouldn’t have had the balls to just depart, when airport staff informed me about a delay of the officers and that they want me to wait. Anyway, very annoying…
I’d have waited, especially as I’d be told to do so.
On the other side of things, I was an hour late (compared to my PPR form sent the day before) into LFQB Troyes from the UK a couple of weeks ago because there was fog at my departure airfield.
I emailed customs before I left but I guess customs and immigration end up waiting for late arrivals more often than pilots end up waiting for them before departure?
Peter wrote:
. You would also get the same problem flying from the Schengen zone to anywhere outside e.g. Germany to Croatia, France to Ireland, etc – that’s an immigration issue which is arguably more “severe” than a customs issue (because a customs inspection is done right there and then and if nothing is found you are “good” while improper immigration status is with you for the rest of your life if the last pp stamp shows an entry and no exit ).
The question here would also be something else. The OP is talking of “customs” but this being a flight to the UK, it was most certainly both, a customs AND immigration issue. Quite possibly this is why “customs” may once again be a word used inappropriately as it would stand for both, customs and immigration. In many countries the “Douaniers” can perform both functions, in some they can be delegated to the police.
Even more so, if immigration is involved, things can go pear-shaped really quick if you get on the wrong side of them.
