MichaLSA wrote:
It is close to a standard way to get North via Timmelsjoch to enter AT-GAFOR Route LO49 at Tschirgant.
boscomantico wrote:
Well, it is close to a very common route across the Alps if flying from Italy to the western bits of Bavaria. You go via Bolzano and Merano, cross the Timmelsjoch and the down the Ötztal valley to the area west of Innsbruck, where one often proceeds via tge Fernpass to Füssen.
Not common enough to get its own route forecast, apparently. But if you’re going from Bolzano towards the Fernpass, wouldn’t the route via Brenner be better? It is lower, it has a route forecast and is only about 20 NM longer – 10-15 minutes in a Cessna 172.
I dunno, the weather on that day was awful, with snow and rain, strong winds and heavy Fön on the nothern side of the Alps…
Going the route through Brennero and Innsbruck would have been “easier” but still heavy winds and especially downdrafts would be expected once crossed to the northern side.
I wouldn’t have touched my aircraft in Bolzano that day for sure, but I may well pee myself too easily with strong winds …
Interesting, I usually don’t fly that route. The passo del rombo (Timmelsjoch) is almost twice as high as passo di resia or brennero (the latter being the common bad weather routing).
I tend to fly either at FL150 or below ridge height. Timmelsjoch is right in between, which somehow does not make sense for my flying profile. Seems to be reserved for the motorcycle…
Anyway, I don’t really understand why the pilot did not go for the Brenner Pass in that kind of weather.
Airborne_Again wrote:
10-15 minutes in a Cessna 172
More of 10 minutes, as I understand as it was a fully 210 HP rated Rocket.
Irrespective of this accident, 10 minutes more is a lot in my book. When I can (safely) save 10 minutes, I will absolutely do it. I love the Ötztal
route.
Thomas_R wrote:
Seems to be reserved for the motorcycle…
I did that route by car a few years ago. Has an interesting one way tunnel on the top of it.
Thomas_R wrote:
Anyway, I don’t really understand why the pilot did not go for the Brenner Pass in that kind of weather.
In this conditions, the Brenner would have been lower but no less violent. With this extreme Föhn and associated turbulence, rotors, mountain waves, any attempt to cross the Alps is a very questionable decision.
Mooney_Driver wrote:
In this conditions, the Brenner would have been lower but no less violent. With this extreme Föhn and associated turbulence, rotors, mountain waves, any attempt to cross the Alps is a very questionable decision.
In a German Forum someone stated, that he flew that time with a P210 at FL 200 in that area above the weather over the Alps to Southern Germany. Seems to have been the only sensible decision when going at all…
Mooney_Driver wrote:
In this conditions, the Brenner would have been lower but no less violent. With this extreme Föhn and associated turbulence, rotors, mountain waves, any attempt to cross the Alps is a very questionable decision.
Undoubtedly. I can’t understand how someone can fly in the Alps in these conditions, let alone not turning around when experiencing the first severe turbulences. The Brenner might have been a little easer regarding rain / snow or cloud base though.
Terrain minimum altitude of Timmelsjoch is a bit more than 8.000 feet, but with higher terrain around obviously. In FL100 he had 2000 feet of ground clearance. Not too comfortable. Doable with a very good knowledge of local wind systems. 210 hp is quite ok. You still have to evade the downdrafts, but at least you’re not going to stall all in a sudden.
Thomas_R wrote:
. I can’t understand how someone can fly in the Alps in these conditions, let alone not turning around when experiencing the first severe turbulences.
If he still could turn around… the turbulence and rotors would have been to the North of the TJ and the question would be, can you actually turn around and clear it.
europaxs wrote:
In a German Forum someone stated, that he flew that time with a P210 at FL 200 in that area above the weather over the Alps to Southern Germany. Seems to have been the only sensible decision when going at all…
Yea, that would be a different story, even though rotors may well reach that high.
