DA42 LN-PFM down in Norway

RobertL18C wrote:

Practising precision spinning in an aerobatic type might build resilience, but may not prepare an FI for understanding the difference between incipient spin recovery, and spin recovery from a stable fully developed spin.

It certainly will. Spin is not a real aerobatic maneuver according to most aerobatic pilots (perhaps an inverse flat spin is, I don’t know). The only “difficult” part about a spin is to count the number of turns and exit at the right point, and this is not seen as “difficult enough” for the higher classes. For me as an amateur it is though

Incipient spin and spin are both good warm up practices. It get’s you in the mood and brushes off some rust. To control the aircraft at the very edge of incipient spin is a basic skill you learn before anything else actually. Idle power, stick fully aft, then prevent the plane from flipping by using rudder only. Very easy in a C-172 because you don’t have to do anything. Much more difficult in an aerobatic plane because it is designed to flip over and spin in that condition, and will do so in an instant. It’s very much like balancing a broom or similar. Recovering from the first flip is usually very easy though, and when rusty/new you will do that a lot You basically end up upside down, pointing down at low speed, and all you have to do is to let go of the back pressure.

Another thing is that maneuvers often go bad/wrong, and you end up in an awkward position. Out of speed, upside down, pointing half upward for instance. Then what do you do? The only thing to do is to release all pressure on the stick and rudder, get the lowest wing pointing down, and let the aircraft recover itself. An aircraft will not stall at zero G.

RobertL18C wrote:

The regulators and accident investigators should spend some time digging further on the root causes of this unfortunate accident.

It probably will be discussed at several places.

This post from an old thread is highly relevant to this discussion: (I don’t link to the actual thread as it derailed almost immediately to questions about flight training safety in general.)

Fly310 wrote:

I came to think of this after reading the spin recovery thread.
Recently the final report was released of an accident with a DA42 that belonged to a flight school in Sweden. The report is in english and here is a brief summary(spoiler!) before you read the full report:

Date: 2016-01-22, 7 pm(so it was dark)
Aircraft: DA42 Twinstar
Occupants: One instructor and two students
Weather: Low overcast at about 400 ft up to 2000 ft

They were at 4500 ft and the instructor was demonstrating deep stall. Initially 25-30 degrees pitch up with a 30 degree bank to the left. Before approaching the stall full power was applied and the stick was taken further back.The aircraft inadvertently entered a flat spin which the instructor was not able to recover from despite using differential power. They spun for the 30 seconds before ending up in the woods, initially 10 000 ft/min and then 3700 ft/min descent. And this is the amazing part, they all survived with non lethal injuries!

The aircraft was pierced by a tree and spun around it whilst the wings kept hitting nearby trees in the rotation which slowed everything down. The student in the back was tossed out of the aircraft when the tree pierced it and was the one with least amount of injuries. An amazing outcome of what usually is a lethal accident for all occupants.

Airborne_Again wrote:

The aircraft inadvertently entered a flat spin

Which is the key point. How do you do that? and why ? Perhaps the same problem as “inadvertently” entering IMC when VFR ? A plane does not all by itself, all of the sudden, enter a flat spin.

They spun for the 30 seconds before ending up in the woods, initially 10 000 ft/min and then 3700 ft/min descent.

This is also interesting. The other report mentioned steady 8000 ft/min descent. Flat spin is characterized by a relatively slow rate of descent. One plane entered a normal spin that later developed into a flat spin. The other did not.

Both planes entered a spin. One plane continued spinning until it hit the ground. The other managed to transition into a flat spin, and later hit the ground.

Both FIs failed at preventing the initial spin to happen in the first place. They failed at recovering from the incipient spin. They failed at recovering the developed spin. One made it worse by transition to a flat spin, which miraculously also saved their lives btw.

I mean, when it quacks like a duck…

The tendency to flat spin is typical of an MEP, while RoD is less than a normal spin, it still is around 5,000 fpm.

Also please note upright spins are typical in Sport and Intermediate competition sequences, usually of the 1 1/2 turn variety, but occasionally the more subtle 1 1/4 turn. These are Aresti manoeuvres and flat spins are not, but flat spins might be displayed in the unlimited category. Advanced you have inverted spins.

You don’t get many points for a spin in a competition AFAIK. I also think one single turn gives more points than 2 for instance. Anyway, that’s what I have heard. I don’t fly competition aerobatics, and have no immediate plans

As Emir posted above, the DA-42 obviously has a procedure to get out of a spin which looks very standard, and certainly can be practiced in any aerobatic plane. Would that have helped? no one knows for sure, but judging by the outcome, it’s not really possible to do anything that should make it worse.

And then there are these subtle things. If you haven’t spun for years and by accident enter a spin, I am not sure if you are even able to figure out which way you spin. If you eventually do, and you do what the POH say, then the plane will not react immediately. It takes some time before the spin stops. More than enough to make you think that nothing is happening and you try something else. Why didn’t they get out of the incipient spin is perhaps a better question, because that is a much more straight forward thing to do. Why did they make the situation worse instead of making it better? Did they start with a flick roll and tried to “recover” from it?

Beats me. When flying aerobatics we always were a chute, for whatever that is worth. A better option would certainly be BRS.