Aveling wrote:
But it is a route along which the minimum required altitude is known
Argh! No! GAFOR routes feature no ´"minimum required altitude". It’s a reference altitude. Don’t make the same mistake as jgmusic possibly made…
This thread might indeed be a part of the explanation of the outcome.
I read one of the articles in Blick again and the eyewitness stated: “Two fireballs fell down. About a minute later there was a loud bang. Then it burned for five minutes – then there was another bang.” For me it would be plausible they cut the power cable (fireballs) and continued flying for one more minute with maybe a now uncontrollable airplane. In any case very, very tragic.
I think that if they hit power cables (and obviously brought them down) that would have been mentioned in the various other reports – because it would have been blindingly obvious. The power would have to be turned off before rescuers could start freely walking around.
Also power cables are not far away from the ground. Are there other cables near the crash site?
Or is the Blick article referring to the Cessna crash in the Alps?
boscomantico wrote:
It’s a reference altitude. Don’t make the same mistake
Thanks! I don’t plan to. I worded it badly, but my point is that it’s a route where there is a number that I’d want to be at least 1000’ above, more if windy/murky etc.. Much better than trying to decipher the poorly portrayed topography in SD in some unfamiliar valley.
Peter wrote:
Also power cables are not far away from the ground. Are there other cables near the crash site?Or is the Blick article referring to the Cessna crash in the Alps?
This Blick article is referring to G-BVDH not the Cessna. I don’t know about what cables run over that pass and at which height. Maybe Gigicret nows?
boscomantico wrote:
GAFOR is a weather forecast.
For Austria: that used to be the case (was also called ALPFOR/edit). For some years now GAFOR has been replaced by Low Level Significant WX Alps and the acronym is used exclusively for the chart displaying the GAFOR Routes, along with the applicable explanation.
Neal wrote:
This Blick article is referring to G-BVDH not the Cessna. I don’t know about what cables run over that pass and at which height. Maybe Gigicret nows?
They came from left to right!
The only place he could have touched is the first pylon on the left
Another image where we see the pylon. It’s not impossible but it’s very low …
With new images, I realize that my first location was totally wrong, here is the area of the accident
SD makes a lovely display of the GAFOR routes, something very useful in the ‘turning into the right valley’ aspect of Alpine flying. Unfortunately, these beautifully portrayed routes disappear the moment you enter ‘flight mode’ in SD! This is something you might not realise until actual departure, as in my case, and is perplexing to overcome in flight.
We flew that route the other direction on the day before.
Unfortunately there was lots of weather about and the only way home would be through the Alps.
I had recently discovered the disappearance of the routes in SD so for added situational awareness I studied the topography, (and indeed the Gafor routes from east to west did indeed show an appropriate track) and set SD running on the phone in non flight mode to clearly depict the route.
On the ’flying SD, i had already depicted a route in magenta over the previously shown Gafor.
However rather than ’clicking dozens and dozens of points, it was much more basic but gave soild indications of valley route, for when the turns are sharper and there may be a poor choice to make.
I flew on the right side of the valley and am comfortable getting close if necessary.
We had poor viz on entry, and some scattered cloud below, and and slightly broken overcast above.
Every minute of that section was flown ready to turn back and I was very happy that there was space for the turn.
As we got further in the weather improved as expected.
All the weather reports were for little wind but as expected there were several places with 2 to 300 ft/ min sink rate.
I can’t imagine flying any part of that route on Autopilot other than the fairly straight leg past Sion.
Can’t remember our entry Alt, but we climbed as the ceiling did and were 10k around Sion.
It was a beautiful flight but it’s sadly a little less wonderful knowing that they didn’t make it.
I didn’t meet him but did talk to him about his Arrow at N.weald. it’s a local field that we vist regularly.
RIP.
It’s a reference altitude. Don’t make the same mistake
Thanks! I don’t plan to. I worded it badly, but my point is that it’s a route where there is a number that I’d want to be at least 1000’ above, more if windy/murky etc..
Maybe helpful when starting to look at possible routes: The Swiss ICAO-map (available online at no cost) shows minimum altitudes along the “recommended” / “usual” pass routes…
If they came in from the left i.e. sort of parallel to the power cables, then to clear that lower (snow-covered in the pic) ridge and then hit the terrain at the spot shown, they must have just only missed that ridge
The road is in front of the snowy ridge
