Mine is forbidden to be turned on with prop not turning
You could do it very fast and check the current, but can all three blades be checked? IOW, is the 3-way commutation done by the prop rotating the brushes across a commutator, or are they cycled electrically with relays on a timer? If the latter then it cannot be done without the prop rotating and getting cooling air.
Certainly sounds as if he was IR rated, contrary to all the discussion above based on the assumption that he wasn’t.
The FAA public record (which may be wrong but that is unlikely) says he had no FAA IR and thus could not fly IFR in French airspace, even if he had an EASA IR, or the UK IMCR, both of which would be ok for IFR in UK or Channel Islands airspace (except no Class A with the IMCR).
Interesting discussion so far!
Anyone in the know if the accident pilot flew alone on the inbound flight to Nantes or was the experienced ferry pilot also on board?
If the scenario is correct that the experienced ferry pilot refused to fly the sector to Cardiff, it would be incomprehensible for me that the accident pilot did not take this as a clear hint that this flight might be too risky or beyond his capabilities.
Still in this scenario: if I would be in the position of the experienced ferry pilot and having declined the later accident flight I would have tried to convince the accident pilot to do the same.
It is unlikely that the FAA record is wrong but you can still fly IFR in France without having an FAA IR? if 1/ the sole (or second) PIC sitting next to you has FAA IR or 2/ you have a French FCL with an IR (not the case as he has already a UK FCL), I think 1/ is very close to the truth…
quatrelle wrote:
Whats the difference between this and the flight we are discussing?
Where to start….
That flight was done by the owners of a Mooney M20K 252 with hot prop and very well equipped for the task.
They were not on a schedule where they would fly in conditions they knew the plane could not master.
On most of the route, icing is the exception rather than the rule.
They obviously did not carry a high profile pax in the back who HAD to be someplace at any given time. Neither had they.
They were IFR equipped and licensed.
SEP flights with even non-deiced planes are possible and are not a priori riskier than others. I would say a crew like the one who went to “the end of the world” and back in a plane they knew very well would know how to handle the situation certainly better than in the case we are discussing. One can’t begin to compare the undertaking they did to this flight, which was anything but an example of what flightplanning ought to be.
Peter wrote:
Recently single engine was allowed for A-to-B charter if it was a turbine, with some requirements which I know nothing about in specific cases
I’ve read they have requirements about how far out of glide distance of an aerodrome they can be in cruise, and the pilot’s briefing must include where to glide to at what point in the cruise. The article was in the context of no currently commercial IFR route finder algorithm taking that requirement into account, which made flight planning immensely more difficult.
Ibra wrote:
if 1/ the sole (or second) PIC sitting next to you has FAA IR
I dont think that is quite correct. In a SEP there can only be one designated PIC. The person in either seat may be actually flying (unless prohibited by the POH), but the crew should be clear on who is the PIC. If reliance is placed on the qualifications of the non flying pilot so be it, but in law he would be the P1 and in command. I didnt think the position was any different under the FARs. Obviously since a flight like this should be almost exclusively on the a/p to a large extent it is semantics. In this case I didnt think there was any suggestion there were three people on board? As I commented earlier, Alderney to Exeter or where ever landfall was planned, is a long crossing compared with the Cap to St Catherine’s which would have been more conservative, without any significant increase in time, and up the beaches of the peninsula just to the west of the CI zone would also have been possible and more conservative at night low level in a SEP.
Ibra wrote:
It is unlikely that the FAA record is wrong but you can still fly IFR in France without having an FAA IR? if 1/ the sole (or second) PIC sitting next to you has FAA IR or 2/ you have a French FCL with an IR (not the case as he has already a UK FCL), I think 1/ is very close to the truth…
cessnatraveller wrote:
Interesting discussion so far!Anyone in the know if the accident pilot flew alone on the inbound flight to Nantes or was the experienced ferry pilot also on board?
If the scenario is correct that the experienced ferry pilot refused to fly the sector to Cardiff, it would be incomprehensible for me that the accident pilot did not take this as a clear hint that this flight might be too risky or beyond his capabilities.
Still in this scenario: if I would be in the position of the experienced ferry pilot and having declined the later accident flight I would have tried to convince the accident pilot to do the same.
dejwu wrote:
DH will definitely talk to the investigators
Is the rumour that he was present at Nantes and refused to fly now confirmed? If not, he’d have not a lot to say to them.
dejwu wrote:
your 1/ would require instructors privilege for the right seat driver, as he has to have all privileges to operate as PIC from the right seat, correct?
I dont think so in FAA land, but could be wrong as all the FAA regulations are not my strongest. I am guessing that of course to be formally instructing then you are correct. However, if not giving instruction then if you are designated P1 the flight priviliges are those on your licence, the other pilots flight priviliges are irrelevant and vica versa if he is P1. If the P1 allows the other pilot to operate some of the controls, the P1 never the less remains fully responsible and in command and the buck stops with him as far as any irregularities or infrigements. Which seat he sits in is irrelevant, although flying P1 from the right seat in hard IFR is possibly not the best of ideas, but does depend on the aircraft and layout of the panel. In some singles and twins it doesnt matter and there is really nothing that couldnt been done from the left or right seat as well as each other. I think there are a lot of singles that also fall into that category, but arguably where full controls and other critical items are on the left hand wall it might not be such a good idea as well as where primary flight displays are not duplicated or shifted to one side.
