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Can any kind of IR ever be added to the LAPL?

My view on this, having done the various training routes, JAA EASA FAA, is that if you want a big takeup you need to take out the stuff which the typical candidate is really not interested in doing.

An it so happens most of that stuff is barely relevant to flying – but the people who make the rules just “don’t get it”. And nobody has the political power to make a really big change. ICAO is a good excuse, too. It’s a bit like the ancient debate about how much univ education should focus on what one vice-chancellor of the esteemed Univ of Sussex (where I spent 3 years) derisorily slagged off as “manpower planning” i.e. teaching people stuff relevant to, ahem, life, and gosh, wait for it, working in a real job!

This typical candidate is not a bright 21 year old fresh IT univ graduate who has just spent 15 years in full time education, sat 100s of tests and exams, and is happy to take 7 more in his stride, while drinking 10 pints of real ale (of course; lager is sooo unfashionable) in the evening. Those people mostly don’t have any money, and won’t have (money and time to fly) for another 30 years.

The typical candidate is someone who is uninterested in wading through books of theory – theory which anyone with the IQ to enjoy flying will immediately spot as being full of padding.

That is why various initiatives have failed. So many people look at the theory and chuck it in right there. That includes young people who would make very good pilots but don’t come from the university pipeline.

Now, look at the “savings” on the LAPL and “any IR” theory. There’s a good starting point for the lack of takeup.

For the LAPL, the logical “IR” add-on would be the EIR, or for UK-only pilots the IMCR. The EIR is never going to fly because the requirements are too close to the full IR but it is crippled. The IMCR would work but (a) the LAPL offers nothing over the NPPL (except you can fly abroad on the LAPL, VFR only) and (b) you can fly in IMC in UK Class G illegally but very easily.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

The E-IR is not much else than an official stamp on what {some / many / most} pilots are doing inofficially anyway – punch through a cloud here and there, or break through a stratus occasionally. I’d say no plaintiff, no judge, if someone knows what he’s doing. In fact, illegally penetrating clouds can be much safer than scud running, if – if ! – you know how to control a plane in IMC.

The real pain starts when you have to fly through controlled airspaces a lot, or your home base is a controlled airport.
In that case, (only) the CBIR gives you much more freedom and flexibility. The biggest advantage of the IR, for me, is not having to fiddle with complex airspace ceilings any more. “Maximum 2000ft, for another 5NM, then 3500, for another 10, then 4500… but oops, don’t touch that limit, it’s only 2500 here… oh and hey, we need to call XYZ tower to get a clearance from November to Sierra…”

Gone.

Last Edited by EuroFlyer at 06 Sep 08:53
Safe landings !
EDLN, Germany

Exactly.

The point is not lost on most people that without full Eurocontrol privileges (and the implied whole-route clearance) you may as well be VFR in IMC – and you have no exams to sit, no FTO training, and no checkride, to get it; just need to be able to fly on instruments and have a well equipped plane

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Peter wrote:

For the LAPL, the logical “IR” add-on would be the EIR, or for UK-only pilots the IMCR. The EIR is never going to fly because the requirements are too close to the full IR but it is crippled.

Whatever license, people need to be able to stand their ground on the radar frequencies and comply with procedures. Making the official IR rating easier would for sure mean there’d be less emphasis on radio skills, and I have strong doubts that work. If you spend one busy afternoon on i.e. the German FIS information frequency, the first sentence of Dante’s inferno comes to mind. Abandon hope all ye enter here.

Last Edited by EuroFlyer at 06 Sep 10:47
Safe landings !
EDLN, Germany

I don’t know why you’re so negative about the chatter on the FIS frequencies, EuroFlyer. On Bremen Information the atmosphere is usually pretty upbeat and relaxed, although some people could indeed be a little bit faster in getting their point across.

Low-hours pilot
EDVM Hildesheim, Germany

MedEwok wrote:

On Bremen Information the atmosphere is usually pretty upbeat and relaxed, although some people could indeed be a little bit faster in getting their point across.

Which is exactly the problem. That chatter would bring the European air traffic to a screaching halt.. Forgive my sarcasm :)

Last Edited by EuroFlyer at 06 Sep 10:28
Safe landings !
EDLN, Germany

MedEwok wrote:

although some people could indeed be a little bit faster in getting their point across.

…or German FIS could get the VFR flight plans which I understand they presently do not.

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

They don’t do that for good reasons. One is that >95% of all aicraft calling in don’t have a flightplan filed, so FIS having the flightplans at their hands wouldn’t change much in terms of frequency congestion, in the big picture.

Mainz (EDFZ) & Egelsbach (EDFE), Germany

boscomantico wrote:

They don’t do that for good reasons. One is that >95% of all aicraft calling in don’t have a flightplan filed, so FIS having the flightplans at their hands wouldn’t change much in terms of frequency congestion, in the big picture.

So what’s the chicken and the egg here?

What are the other good reasons?

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

" 21 year old fresh IT univ graduate who has just spent 15 years in full time education, sat 100s of tests and exams, and is happy to take 7 more in his stride,"
I got my PPL at 23, 2 years after last exams in full-time education, 4 weeks after last exam.
I didn’t buy any books, just got free ground instruction when waiting to fly on the residential, full-time, 30 hour course. But that was 1964. Fewer than 7 exams. Only Air Law required an effort. Nav and met were already known.

Maoraigh
EGPE, United Kingdom
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