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Buying a family plane (and performance calculations)

I can speak for my club only, but I believe it is similar to what @Airborne_Again describes – a non-profit organization with “anything aviation” as the raison d’être, with a focus on flight training and aviation sports. We effectively own the land, a leftover from the days when aeroclubs got whatever they asked for. We converted it to a public use airport for tax reasons. We make the most money on flight training in aeroplanes and loose the most on models (the flying kind, not the “walk on a runway”). We have several salaried employees (the club manager, maintenance people. etc). Some instructors are volunteers, some get paid. We do get grant money for specific events we organize, eg. the World Cup in Kraków, an international event for space models, or the annual “Flight of South-Western Poland” in honor of Franciszek Żwirko, but that usually just covers some part of the costs related to the event. We do sometimes get donations from members. I’ve learned that the well being of the club very much depends on the quality of oversight done by the club’s board – the club has at times been effectively bankrupt, on good years we actually end up making a small profit we use as a downpayment on stuff we lease (a new avgas filling station, a glider winch, a Tecnam, an ultralight, a tractor, you get the gist). We build hangars then long-term lease them to people to pay for them, but in a few years they should start bringing in a profit. That said, we can’t, at this time, afford for example a four-person plane or a replacement glider tug (the UL plane is allegedly no good for towing tandem gliders, even with the 100hp Rotax 912).

We do make some money on scenic flights, we lease out land to eg. a parachute jumping place.

Our yearly fees vary depending on the type of activity, but for aeroplanes we pay around 250EUR; a C152 is around 100EUR, the Tecnam 2008JC is 110EUR, the UL is 60EUR.

No landing fees on a 1000m grass runway, but we charge for overnight parking and hangar space. Come one, come all, let’s have us a fly-in!

I guess right now our biggest challenge from an aeroplane perspective is finding a way to fund a hard runway. I’m sure the glider folks would disagree, but we get along. Many, many thanks to @what_next for opening my eyes as to what is involved in preparing for this and later in keeping it running!

BTW, this has gotten way off-topic…

tmo
EPKP - Kraków, Poland

Lots of good advice has been posted here.
What I could underline from my (and family flying) experience is mainly the ability of getting to interesting destinations (small Greek islands being on top, Croatia, hot springs of Hungary, Slovakia, but also coast of Baltic, Lithuania etc.). For us these are some nice, bit remote places, with less touristic traffic. Important here – flying legs needs to be no longer than 2 – 2,5h.
I think a pilot talking about what he is doing during the flight gives a lot of comfort to passengers, particularly until they learn with time some basics about flying.
And please do not take me wrong with that statement, but twin really helps with families. I think parachute (like in Cirrus) may be similarly “easing” factor for wives…
I would also add that learning them about using oxygen really makes sense, although initially opposing canulas, are friends now, no headaches, not being shagged after arrival.
From time to time it makes sense to take a charter flight, short going somewhere more distant, departing some nice morning hour, where you need to get up at something like 4 or 5 am to be on time for check-in two hours prior flight… Really improves attitude towards copying with “issues” of own flying…
And eventually after few years of doing your best in pleasing your lovely, once being proud and thinking you won, you hear: “dad, can’t we fit jet engine somewhere at the back?”… Fortunately reminding a car or CAT commuting was enough in this situation, but kids are really spoiled these days…

EP..

From time to time it makes sense to take a charter flight, short going somewhere more distant, departing some nice morning hour, where you need to get up at something like 4 or 5 am to be on time for check-in two hours prior flight… Really improves attitude towards copying with “issues” of own flying…

It’s like vaccination. One needs a new shot at regular intervals to maintain immunisation.

Last Edited by Aviathor at 12 May 05:13
LFPT, LFPN

Hello everyone,
Your response was so overwhelming that I deliberately stayed away from euroga for two days in order not to post something too emotional in response Oh that and my newborn daughter is keeping us pretty busy…

Now after reading or at least skimming over all replies I’d like to thank everyone for their input!
I also talked about this topic with my wife and she was pretty straightforward in telling me that how this plays out mainly depends on wheter or not she enjoys flying in light aircraft.

So my conclusions are thus:

  • Before considering any purchase whatsoever, see if and how much my wife enjoys flying with me
  • First couple of flights will be short local trips to place that are not easily reachable without GA, namely the East Frisian islands. It takes hours to get there by land transport+ferries and only 20-30 minutes by GA.
  • All flights with family should be in good conditions (no turbulence, little wind, FEW if any clouds)
  • Carrying the entire family will have to wait until the children are a bit older. Thinking about it again, carrying a pram is not going to be easy. Better wait until both children can walk (or our younger one only needs a small foldable buggy)
  • IF my wife enjoys flying with me, I’ll consider either buying a share in an suitable 4 seater or buy a cheaper one outright, depending on circumstances. I gathered several types could be suitable, starting with good old C172 and PA28s or M20s or TB10s and ending with light twins like the Aztec.
  • IF she doesn’t, a two seater might be more economical although it would prevent me from bringing more than one friend/child with me
  • For the time being, I will stick with renting and see how it plays out. Work and family permitting I want to fly more than the mentioned 30 hours in the long run. For now this is simply a realistic figure and not something I intend to keep that way.
  • I’ll definately need to get back to you guys when approaching the purchase of a specific airplane
Last Edited by MedEwok at 12 May 09:30
Low-hours pilot
EDVM Hildesheim, Germany

That sounds like a good plan. Although i would not restrict it to the kids getting older. We had one of those “backpacks” to carry the smaller one, and a foldable stroller that is very light and will fit in any airplane!

Alexis wrote:

That sounds like a good plan. Although i would not restrict it to the kids getting older. We had one of those “backpacks” to carry the smaller one, and a foldable stroller that is very light and will fit in any airplane!

Agreed. I took my kids flying well before they were one year old.

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

Alexis wrote:

Although i would not restrict it to the kids getting older. We had one of those “backpacks” to carry the smaller one, and a foldable stroller that is very light and will fit in any airplane!

We actually have both as well. Maybe the kids will have less difficulties with flying later on if they get used to it from an early age.

Low-hours pilot
EDVM Hildesheim, Germany

Another thing, but probably not for the smallest kids. Kids seems to love the Cub. It’s probably a combination of looks and the tandem seating. In the Cub they get their own private seat, safe behind dad, with their own stick, maybe.

The elephant is the circulation
ENVA ENOP ENMO, Norway

Sure, the kids will learn to fly easier than many wifes! Most of them will be asleep most of the time anyhow.

I think I mentioned it before, but with infants in the house the most precious comodity is time. I have flown for the first time since my kid was born yesterday and she was born on July 1st last year. There is simply no way I could make time to even get away for one afternoon during this time before that.

LSZH(work) LSZF (GA base), Switzerland

Mooney_Driver wrote:

Sure, the kids will learn to fly easier than many wifes! Most of them will be asleep most of the time anyhow.

The kids or the wife?

My mother, who is anxious and one of the most unpleasant “passengers” when I drive, is surprisingly easy to accommodate when flying. She either reads the newspaper (bit of a problem when she unfolds it) or sleeps. She takes little interest in the flying and doesn’t know enough about it to comment (in contrast to driving). She distinctly dislikes the idea of night flying though, although she hasn’t come along yet, because she says it’s “normal” for private/small airplanes to fly at day time only.

Last Edited by Patrick at 12 May 12:59
Hungriger Wolf (EDHF), Germany
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