Buying a family plane (and performance calculations)

MedEwok wrote:

encouraged me to ask the wider EuroGA community for your opinion

You should be more careful what you ask for I would say forget your family. Chances are about 99% that of those other three, max 1 will enjoy flying in a SEP. If one of them does, then chances are 99% that the person will be one of your kids, but you will have more luck with your grand kids. Get a nice modern 2 seater, and be happy each time one in your family wants to come along

I mean seriously. A SEP is comparable to a sail boat. On the surface it also looks like a nice family kind of thing, but all experience show it is nothing of the sort. It is in fact everything but a family thing. Very few like the “travelling” part, most people like the “staying there” part, and the travelling is just a necessary evil they want to make as quick and trouble free as possible.

I know this was not your topic, but if you want to take your family with you, then nothing less than the plane below will do in the long run (I’l bet your wife very soon will start complaining this one is small also):

One of our neighbors down the street is currently in school to convert to the BBJ, with another week to go… There are those including his employer who have actually done as LeSving suggests! I did choose a nice modern two-seater myself, similar to the Sonaca but a bit more robust, built in 1971 and costing $35K. A slightly more practical choice would have been a nice modern Grumman AA-5B built in 1978 and costing $50K.

LeSving wrote:

You should be more careful what you ask for I would say forget your family. Chances are about 99% that of those other three, max 1 will enjoy flying in a SEP.

@MedEwok, you should ask @Emir and @Bart how they manage to bring their wifes and children (daughter and son for both of them) on many trips across Europe. What is the secret?

LeSving wrote:

Chances are about 99% that of those other three, max 1 will enjoy flying in a SEP. If one of them does, then chances are 99% that the person will be one of your kids, but you will have more luck with your grand kids. Get a nice modern 2 seater, and be happy each time one in your family wants to come along

Mine all do from PA28 to now something a bit bigger. I think some pilots create this problem deliberately ie they like going flying to get away from the family.

But to answer the question posed by @MedEwok, I wouldnt buy a plane now given your hours and mission. I would try to find a Cirrus, Lance or Saratoga in your area to rent and learn to pack lighter. We toured Australia in a Mooney 201 with stroller, child seat and a baby. Pack small and use soft bags that can get squashed in to the baggage hold.

Medewok may I ask the weights of the four of you, and an example of a reasonably long flight (from where to where)?

It sounds like a decent 4 seater would do this, especially as you aren’t crossing water so don’t need to use up 1 seat with a liferaft as I do. A few observations:

• forget suitcases – you need to make it work with soft bags or backpacks
• prams need to be wholly collapsible
• 30hrs/year is not enough currency for anything beyond a sunny Sunday afternoon local burger run, if you want to be current enough to be safe, IMHO
• strongly consider a syndicate, unless your rental situation is exceptionally good

As an example data point, a TB20GT is 900kg empty, 1400kg MTOW, and for that flight you mention you would fill the tanks right up to get loads of options and the payload would be about 260kg, which would meet your requirement (60kg of kids and junk).

You will get as many recommendations as there are people because most people love their plane but this suggests your mission profile can be met with a 4 seater. If you were doing four adults, it gets a lot harder, as is fairly obvious.

Medewok, you are at the beginning of your flying career. At this step I also had the wish of a plane of my own. Actually this comes until now from time to time. It is quite understanable. A plane of your own has some advantages and some disadvantages.

Actually I would like to have several different planes:
a piper cub for fun flying
a C210 for holidays with the family
a C182 for travelling with my wife using small grass places

But instead of buying I joined aeroclubs, so I had the choice of different planes. Not everybody is willing and able to arrange with other club members, but mostly I found nice pilots.
And sometimes I chartered from a flying school.
As an engineer I would like to care for a plane, but for me my daughters and the time spend together are much more important. Especially as they were young…
We flew for weekends from the ruhr area to the frisian islands in a C172 and only after my daughters got older than 12 we started flying for 10 days through europe, once a year in a DA42.
Most of my flying was with other pilots in cessna or piper through europe.
At the moment I start flying with a A112, for day trips in germany.

My suggestion is, that you estimate the cost and needed time for caring of a own plane.
I think for this amount of energy you could easily rent a C210 or multi engine…
My best friend has worked many years as a doctor in a hospital, so I know of his very limited spare time. In the mean time he is working with a partner on their own, so he has got more time and money…..

Get a Piper Comanche ;-) I love ours!