Peter wrote:
However I don’t think you can get a plane which will do this for €30k, in a good condition. At that level it is almost sure to be a clapped out maintenance money sponge.
Having seen that Arrow you showed I think I know why you say that. Yet, I can assure you that while this may well be the case in the UK, it is not so elsewhere. Certainly not in Switzerland, where a plane like that Arrow would most probably attract the attention of the FOCA or at least the airport authority VERY fast and where planes generaly are in very good condition, at least as long as they are within annual. Of course you can find wrecks which have been sitting unattended for years, but they are rare and they will usually spend a couple of decades on plane check before they either get wrecked or some poor soul makes them a project.
So yes, you can buy a reasonably healthy plane for 30k. Prices have risen recently, but in the last several years, I have seen several planes change hands for this kind of amount, which today make the owners quite happy. One of them was an Arrow III with Aspen PFD and on condition engine which 2 years ago was bought by a friend of mine and he loves it and has upgraded it massively, but it could have flown on as was. Another was a Piper Archer out of a Flight School which is now owned by one guy I advised and he is extremely happy with it, it has had nothing at al done to it since he bought it other than the standard maintenance.
When I bought my plane in 2009 for a lot less than 30k, it had a well running engine and good instrumentation and I flew it happily for 2 years before I decided to do the engine, which bumped its value up to about 40k when I did. (Engine overhaul had been in the budget, so two given years). I then flew it on like that until 2016 when I upgraded it with AP and PFD because I knew I will keep this plane. Otherwise I would have sold it on and bought something more capable, but as I don´t need that, I stayed on.
What is important in buying a budget plane is that the basics are right. Good airframe, no corrosion, engine with enough potential to last a few years and adequate avionics for the task at hand. Looking at the Traveller out of the prop strike thread, that was one such example, where for 13k someone bought a valid airframe with 600 hrs potential and all he would have had to upgrade is mode S if he wanted to fly internationally.
Just a few examples I have seen recently for VFR tourers:
http://www.planecheck.com?ent=da&id=35753
Huge engine and prop potentials, Mode S, VFR GPS and even a basic AP. 28k asking, realistically available for maybe 25k or less. Yes it is a C, but it would be enough for Medewok at least until his kids are in their teens.
http://www.planecheck.com?ent=da&id=30193
This is a typical PA28-180 announced for 24.5k. It has good engine hours and looks pretty pristine for the age. It will need a Mode S Transponder (TT31 as it´s got a KT76) and eventually a 8.33 radio but otherwise for VFR this will be a lovely airplane. They say they can deliver it in any registration the customer wants so the EC reg is no factor.
http://www.planecheck.com?ent=da&id=35667
This is another PA28-180 from the UK, also looks quite adequate as a first plane and has apparently been kept quite well.
http://www.planecheck.com?ent=da&id=34719
A German registered Aiglon with Mode S and good values. Also an interesting VFR plane.
That is just wjat a 10 min search finds bekow 30k. And I did not even look outside the box. There are a lot more.
AdamFrisch wrote:
I see no point in renting, if the goal is to own.
If the goal is to fly, however, renting and owning are two options that should both be considered very well.
I’ve been renting for about four years so far in various setups (from schools, club, private owners) as I “progress” in terms of types flown. It’s been a wonderful experience so far, both in terms of the flying itself and broadening your horizon as well as meeting people etc. I’ve hardly ever had an availability issue in the sense that if I wanted to do a particular trip, I’d always find an aircraft that would be capable for the “mission”.
MedEwok wrote:
In 10 years the budget might be something like 100k€, but should one rent until then?
That’s an interesting question. Sometimes I feel maybe I started flying (and burning money flying) too early. If you do this later in your life, the perspective to buy might be a different one. If I saved up the money I spent renting and flying for the last 4 years (that’s about 300 hours) and the coming years, I’d be able to purchase a pretty nice plane around the age of 40. 
But at the end of the day, I don’t believe in that: I fly now because I enjoy it a lot and I have the liberty to do so and I will see where it takes me. Might be ownership at some point in the future, but contrary to Adam’s view further up, my goal is not to own, my goal is to fly. To me, owning is a means to an end.
To add something more on-topic: I would find a nice C172 or PA28 a very good way to start your family flying (regardless of whether you end up owning or renting). Sure, as your kids grow, this will become a W&B issue eventually, but I think it’s too early to plan for that. Maybe, indeed, they won’t like to fly along with you as they grow older because they have other interests (heck, YOU might develop other interests). Though I absolutely don’t share LeSving’s view that this is a 99% probability. I’ve gotten to know a good handful of people who fly with their families or partners happily. If that is the case and you need a bigger plane, I think there will still be time then to upgrade e.g. to a C182, which I find a very capable family flying plane unless you decide to have more children. :-) Many here will say the mentioned aircraft are boring (and I think you yourself expressed a dislike of the C172) but that’s of course a personal matter of taste. I find all of them great for what they do and beautiful to look at, too.
One more thing: Don’t expect to not be overflying the Alps – that will be a huge limitation in terms of destinations available. I was wary of doing this initially (see this thread posted with my old username: https://www.euroga.org/forums/flying/2688-vfr-alps-crossing#post_42187) but found that in clear conditions, it is a non-event. Neither oxygen nor low-level valley flying are required if you cross on a clear day at say FL75-115 or so. Granted, those days are a bit rare and you should have time contingency and no pressure to fly in deteriorating conditions.
I agree crossing the Alps is fine. Personally I used oxygen – flying at FL120 or so – but one can do it lower in some places. The views are priceless
Mooney_Driver wrote:
Some times there are TB10´s for sale in your price range too. They have a nice big cabin (like the TB20) but are fixed gear and prop
The TB10 has a constant speed prop. It’s a nice thing though!
I’m kind of in the same boat as OP. 30 hours or so post PPL and a member of a C172 group. I want to do the IR and as such am looking for a 150 kt IFR tourer and budget about 70k. Problem is I can’t find anyone interested in starting a group or even just a 50:50 here. There’s basically no market for anything beyond a 172 and there must be less than 100 PPL/IR in the country at a guess.
Planning on about 40-50 hours a year and could manage 1k a month which makes things tight as a single owner, less so if I could find a partner!
I’ve gotten to know a good handful of people who fly with their families or partners happily
I have also flown countless times with my son. Several times with other family members as well. But it’s only my youngest son (1 of three) who enjoys it. I have since long given up on suggesting flying with the others. My youngest son is now flying solo himself at the age of 17 (even a big picture of him on the front page of the local news paper). It’s not that I won’t fly happily with my family, it’s just that only 1/4 of the rest of my family has no interest in doing it, not for any purpose. I consider myself one of the lucky ones regarding family.
So, one can hardly argue that I haven’t flown with my family, and with great adverse effects 
, but this is not what we are discussing. We are discussing purchasing a plane for the sole reason of going on family trips, husband, wife and a couple of children. I say good luck with that
Personally I only missed the 3rd/4th seat on very few occasions. When I was considering to become an owner, I thought that many people of family and friends would like to join me on my trips, but that didn’t turn out as the reality and now I’m happy with my little 2-seater with low running costs I can easily afford myself. For those rare occasions I really need a 4-seater, I can rent it from the club.
Coming from a family of five (mom, dad and three sons), only my dad and I enjoy flying, my mom and brothers have never been keen on it. Having kids myself now (two girls) I enjoy flying with both of them. My wife has flown with me once on a Ka-7 glider and that was it. I do pick places of interest for them, the youngest (3 y/o) only sits still for an hour and refuses a headset (even if it is pink…). Longer flights I do with my oldest and she enjoys those days/weekends away. These flights are some of the most rewarding, and lasting memories for the both of us, I’m sure.
As many have said on this thread, make sure the family enjoys it too, it’s just not as easy as shoving them in a car. And for me flying with the kids is an added distraction and I only fly under CAVOK conditions so I don’t add any extra stress. I fly a Mooney M20K 252 and am 1.97 meters tall, and we all fit fine. It’s a cosy family stationwagon with wings, considering your budget a sindicate could be an option or a M20J for instance. Good economy and you cover some ground in a two hour leg.
Flying home from Burgundy with my oldest daughter, niece and sister-in-law (who truely enjoys flying, her sister – my wife – not so much…)
Fun to land somewhere with my two little girls, people always stop and stare.
