Sebastian_G wrote:
I would consider it unsafe in general to fly over a country I do not want to go. Where would the crew go if there is a technical or medical emergency? I would not fly to Vilnius at all as there is some risk the crew might choose nearby Belarus as an alternate in some scenarios. Finally staying at Vilnius so close to the border is probably a bad idea all together…
With an airliner that is difficult. Most of the traffic going to east Asis is crossing countries where one does not really want to land in right now, quite a few cross Russia as well.
The other bit, not going to Vilnius or the Baltic states in general is exactly what Russia and Belarus would love. These 3 states are very high on the list of possible hostile take overs by the Russians, the more isolated they become, the better for these intentions. And nobody in his right mind would file Minsk as an alternate after this.
The UK has notamed the place as dodgy 
Q) EGXX/QAFXX/IV/NBO/E/000/999/5218N01451W999
FROM: 21/05/24 16:00C) TO: 21/08/22 16:00 EST
E) AIRSPACE SECURITY WARNING ISSUED BY THE DEPARTMENT FOR TRANSPORT
- RISK TO CIVIL AVIATION IN BELARUS. OPERATORS ARE ADVISED NOT TO ENTER THE TERRITORY AND AIRSPACE OF BELARUS DUE TO SERIOUS SAFETY AND SECURITY CONCERNS POSED TO COMMERCIAL AVIATION. OPERATORS ARE ADVISED TO TAKE THIS INFORMATION INTO ACCOUNT IN THEIR OWN RISK ASSESSMENTS AND ROUTING DECISIONS. CONTACT UK DEPARTMENT FOR TRANSPORT +44(0)207 082 6639 OR +44(0)207 944 5999 OUT OF HOURS.
FOR FURTHER DETAILS. 2021-05-0542/AS6
Malibuflyer wrote:
The authors show that what happened has nothing to do with “Hijacking” or “State Terrorism”
If you try hard enough you will always find some legalese to justify any criminal act.
It’s hard to see what might be done though.
Banning overflights, isn’t going to affect Lukashenko very much.
Banning flights arriving or departing Belarus transiting European airspace might hurt a bit. They will have to go further south or north making such flights more expensive, but Lukashenko won’t mind that. The fewer connections between the west and Belarus, the more he probably likes it. And if he gets to blame that on the EU then all the better for his domestic audience.
Freezing funds of wealthy state supporters held in the EU sounds like a good idea. But anything that is liquid has probably left the EU & US in the past 24 hours. And these never seems to have too much effect anyway. They probably get given more assets by the state to keep them happy (and make them more dependent on the state), which in turn gets funded by Putin to keep Belarus’s loyal support (and a buffer between Russia and the west).
An embargo on all air and road freight? It will just increase Lukashenko reliance on Russia, which will keep him supplied.
And even if enough pressure found, it’s hard to see Lukashenko handing back over his captive. As his profile and credibility has been increased and that makes him too dangerous to let loose.
I don’t know where this is going to go, but can’t help but think it will fizzle out after some angry complaints, some ineffective sanctions and the passage of time.
Having said that, that Russian opposition leader Alexei Navalny did get sent to Germany for treatment, but only when the Russians were convinced he was going to die anyway.
Also, I’m not sure that the EU leaders have the moral high ground after effectively forcing the landing of the Bolivian president’s jet in Austria (by the surrounding countries refusing entry to their airspace) on the request of the US after they suspected Snowdon was onboard. For the sake of clarity, I’m not saying that this justifies the current incident. I think both incidents were very wrong.
dublinpilot wrote:
Also, I’m not sure that the EU leaders have the moral high ground after effectively forcing the landing of the Bolivian president’s jet in Austria (by the surrounding countries refusing entry to their airspace) on the request of the US after they suspected Snowdon was onboard. For the sake of clarity, I’m not saying that this justifies the current incident. I think both incidents were very wrong.
Regarding comparing:
For starters, Morales was on a state aircraft, and for those different rules apply. The plane wasn’t forced to land anywhere, it was denied overflight.
Some airline pilot voices here.
https://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/640620-fr4978-ath-vno-diverted-escorted-minsk-alleged-bomb-threat-but-4.html
Snoopy wrote:
The plane wasn’t forced to land anywhere, it was denied overflight.
Indeed. That’s why I said “effectively”.
Snoopy wrote:
Morales was on a state aircraft, and for those different rules apply.
Yes – technically this is obviously a different thing as it was another article of the Chicago convention they breached. And more significantly it was also quite a different thing as it was not an individual “evil state” that was in breach, but severals states actually colluding to achieve the desired result.
Snoopy wrote:
The plane wasn’t forced to land anywhere,
That is ridiculous – but obviously true: The plane hat the option to stay in the air over Austria forever as long as Bolivia would have managed in air refuel – without the permission to send fuel planes through adjacent airspaces. But it is obviously not the fault of Austria, the US, Germany or any other country that Bolivia doesn’t operate a fleet of space based refuel crafts that can enter Austrian airspace “from above” without touching other airspaces.
In summary, the comparison of the two cases again confirm the one and only standing rule in international law: Evil is what Evil do!
Pilot: 09:28:58 Minsk, Good day, RYR 1TZ, FL390 approaching SOMAT
ATC:09:29:04 RYR 1TZ, Minsk Control, good afternoon, radar contact.
ATC: 09:30:49 RYR 1TZ, Minsk
Pilot: Yes, go ahead.
ATC: RYR 1TZ for your information, we have information from special services that you have bomb on board and it can be activated over Vilnius.
Pilot: 1TZ Standby.
Pilot. 09:31:17: Ok RYR 1TZ could you repeat the message?
ATC: RYR 1TZ, I say again we have information from special services that you have bomb on board. That bomb can be activated over Vilnius.
Pilot: Roger that, standby.
ATC: 09:31:42: RYR 1TZ for security reason we recommend you to land at UMMS.
Pilot: Ok…that..it..understood give us alternate please.
Pilot:09:32:59: RYR 1TZ
ATC: RYR 1TZ
Pilot: The bomb….direct message, where did it come from? Where did you have information about it from?
ATC: RYR 1TZ stanby please.
ATC: 09:33:42: RYR 1TZ
Pilot: Go ahead.
ATC: RYR 1TZ airport security stuff informed they received e-mail.
Pilot: Roger, Vilnius airport security stuff or from Greece?
ATC: RYR 1TZ this e-mail was shared to several airports.
Pilot: Roger, standby.
Pilot:09:34:49: Radar, RYR 1TZ.
ATC: RYR 1TZ.
Pilot: Could you give us frequency for (unreadable) company so that we would be able to (unreadable).
ATC: RYR 1TZ say again what frequency do you need.
Pilot: We just need to quawk with the operation of the company, if there any frequency for that (unreadable).
ATC. Do you need RYR operation frequency?
Pilot: That is correct 1TZ.
ATC: Standby please.
ATC: RYR 1TZ ,Standby please
Pilot: Standing-by.
Pilot:09:39:30: RYR 1TZ Any adverts?
ATC: RYR 1TZ Standby, waiting for the information.
Pilot: Could you say again that I have to call for the airport that authorities …(unreadable) to divert to..
ATC: RYR 1TZ I read you THREE, say again please.
Pilot:09:39:57: Radar, RYR 1TZ .
ATC : RYR 1TZ ,Go.
Pilot: Can you say again the IATA code of the airport that authorities recommended us to divert to?
ATC: RYR 1TZ roger, standby please.
Pilot: OK, I give you (unreadable) can you say again IATA code of the airport that authorities have recommended us to divert to?
ATC: RYR 1TZ Standby.
Pilot: Standby, Roger.
ATC :09:41:00: RYR 1TZ .
Pilot: Go ahead.
ATC: IATA code is MSQ.
Pilot: can you say again please?
ATC:IATA code MSQ.
Pilot: MSQ, thanks.
Pilot: 09:41:58: RYR 1TZ Again, this recommendation to divert to Minsk where did it come from?Where did it come from?Company? Did it come from departure airport authorities or arrival airport authorities?
ATC: RYR 1TZ this is our recommendations.
Pilot: can you say again?
ATC: RYR 1TZ this is our recommendations.
Pilot : unreadable.
Pilot:Did you say that your recommendation?
ATC: RYR 1TZ , Charlie-Charlie.
ATC: 09.42.49: RYR 1TZ we have ground stuff frequency for Vilnius 131.750
Pilot. 131.75 and we have contact…(unreadable).
ATC:09:44:38 RYR 1TZ advise your decision please?
Pilot: Radar ,RYR 1TZ
ATC:RYR 1TZ advise your decision please.
Pilot; 09:44:52: I need answer the question what is the code of the (unreadable) green, yellow or amber red.
ATC: Standby.
ATC:09:45:09 RYR 1TZ they say code is red.
Pilot: Roger that, in that case we request holding at present position.
ATC: RYR 1TZ Roger, hold over your position, mantain FL390 turns at own discretion.
Pilot; Ok holding at our discretion at present position mantaining FL390 RYR 1TZ.
Pilot:09:47:12: RYR 1TZ we are declaring an emergency MAYDAY, MAYDAY, MAYDAY RYR 1TZ. our intentions would be to divert to Minsk airport
ATC: RYR 1TZ MAYDAY, Roger.Standby for vectors.
Pilot: Standby RYR 1TZ .
Pilot: 09:48:10 RYR 1TZ request descent to 10000 feet.
ATC: RYR 1TZ , descend FL100.
Pilot: descend (unreadable) RYR 1TZ .
ATC:RYR 1TZ from present position cleared direct point KOLOS : Kilo Oscar Lima Oskar Sierra.
Pilot: Direct to KOLOS RYR 1TZ.
ATC:09:50:15 RYR 1TZ how do you read me?
Pilot: I read you 5 RYR 1TZ .
ATC: Roger.
ATC:09:50:24: RYR 1TZ do you need any aerodrome details and weather information?
Pilot : We can (unreadable )ATIS from Minsk …enough.
ATC: RYR 1TZ do you need ATIS frequency?
Pilot: We got it.09:It is 128.850, 1 TZ.
ATC:09:51:50: RYR 1TZ
Pilot: 1TZ , go ahead.
ATC: RYR 1TZ KOLOS 2H arrival, RW in use 31R and if you need vectors advise.
Pilot: Ok, KOLOS.. could you say the (unreadable).
ATC: KOLOS 2H arrival.
Pilot: KOLOS 2H arrival, RW 31R, RYR 1TZ
ATC: And ATIS frequency is 128.850
Pilot: 28.85.
ATC:09:52:29: RYR 1TZ and advise passengers on board and if any dangerous goods on board.
Pilot: No dangerous goods, standby…and we need 130 to avoid.
Pilot:09:53:00 RYR 1TZ turning heading 130 to avoid.
ATC: RYR 1TZ roger heading 130 report clear of weather.
Pilot: WILCO.
Pilot :09:54:45: RYR 1TZ persons on board is 133.
ATC: Persons on board 133 copied thank you.
ATC:09:55:33 RYR 1TZ when ready report estimating time of arrival.
Pilot: 09:56:48: RYR 1TZ request descend 9000 feet.
ATC: RYR 1TZ descend FL90.
Pilot. Descend FL90, RYR 1TZ .
ATC: 09:57:12: RYR 1TZ now contact Minsk approach on 125.9.
Pilot: 125.9, RYR 1TZ
Pilot: 09:57:22 Approach, Hallo, RTZ descending to FL 90 on the heading 130
ATC: RYR1TZ Minsk Approach good day expect vectoring for ILS RW 31R descend to altitude 6000 feet QNH 1010
Pilot: 6000 feet QNH 1010 vectors for ILS 31R, RYR1TZ
ATC: RYR1TZ turn left heading 070
Pilot: Heading 090 RYR1TZ
Pilot: (unreadable) Confirm ILS 31R
ATC: RYR1TZ Affirm ILS Approach RW 31R
Pilot: 31R thanks
ATC: RYR1TZ do you need any data information about Minsk 2?
Pilot: Stand by
Pilot: RYR1TZ request heading 060 (unreadable) turn to avoid
ATC: RYR1TZ cleared heading 060
Pilot: 060 degrees (unreadable)
Pilot: To correction that’s may be (unreadable) 1TZ
ATC: 1TZ Roger
Pilot: RYR1TZ actually request heading 040 for avoid for 20 miles may be (unreadable) 1TZ
ATC: RYR1TZ heading 040
Pilot: Heading 040 RYR1TZ (unreadable) 1TZ
Pilot: RYR1TZ request heading 030 to avoid for 10 miles
ATC: RYR1TZ heading 030
Pilot: Heading 030 RYR1TZ
ATC: 10:01:14 RYR1TZ do you need any assistance upon arrival?
Pilot: Negative RYR1TZ
ATC: RYR1TZ Roger
Pilot: 10:02:46 RYR1TZ are you aware of nature of our (unreadable) urgenty
ATC: RYR1TZ yes we have information
Pilot: Roger (unreadable) location (unreadable) the aircraft should be parked on in the airport (unreadable) doing this event
ATC: 10:03:15 RYR1TZ say again your message please
Pilot: RYR1TZ Do you have (unreadable) a nature the civic area in the airport where the aircraft should be parked on in this kind of event?
ATC: RYR1TZ yes we have special area
Pilot: Roger that RYR1TZ in this case no other assistance needed
ATC: RYR1TZ roger
Pilot: 10:04:14 RYR1TZ request
ATC: Go ahead
Pilot: Just wanted to know if our company was informed about about this case about this event
ATC: RYR1TZ stand by
Pilot: RYR1TZ (unreadable) сomplete and now we are ready to commence approach
ATC: RYR1TZ Roger turn right heading 080
Pilot: 080 degrees RYR1TZ
ATC: RYR1TZ we will try to pass information to your company during 5 minutes
ATC: 10:06:45 RYR1TZ descend to altitude 4000 feet
Pilot: Descending 4000 feet RYR1TZ
Pilot: RYR1TZ Confirm QNH
ATC: RYR1TZ QNH 1009
Pilot: 1009 QNH RYR1TZ
ATC: RYR1TZ turn left heading 050 descend to altitude 3000 feet
Pilot: Left heading 050 descending 3000 feet RYR1TZ
ATC: 10:10:23 RYR1TZ turn left heading 010 cleared ILS Approach RW 31R report establish localizer
Pilot: Turn left heading 010 cleared ILS 31R report establish RYR1TZ
ATC: 10:11:21 RYR1TZ you’ve just passed the final
ATC: 10:12:26 RYR1TZ do you have contact localizer?
Pilot: Affirm
ATC: RYR1TZ contact Tower 130,4
Pilot: 130,4 RYR1TZ
(Belarussian Aviation Authority)
@Snoopy: Source?
