and the first controller in Germany will give you a direct to some numbered waypoint belonging to the approach procedure
I was really flabbergasted when I got a “PROCEED DIRECT DN424” for the first time in Germany.
Turned out to be a RNAV STAR waypoint. In Germany it is quite common to be directed to RNAV waypoints, even though you’re flying the traditional navaid IAP…
In Germany it is quite common to be directed to RNAV waypoints, even though you’re flying the traditional navaid IAP…
Germany is a 100% radar environment. All they do is shuffle airplanes around so separation is fine. Instead of asking you “what’s your heading” and then give you a heading, track it and give you correction vectors, they just pick a point that will do the job and assign that to you. That can be anything a FMS/GPS knows about. If you don’t like that you can request another point or vectors.
I’ve once had a DCT from 100NM within France to Stuttgart, Germany. A lot is possible when the ATC staff involved are willing and have time. Of course impossible with London Control, I am sure they die of a heart attack after 10 years in that job.
London will do that when you are departing their airspace for example I have had DCT BATEL when still over Norfolk. But this has presumably come from Maastricht.
I just tried to get a route from EGBT to EDDK at 270 and the router failed FYI timing out.
I just tried to get a route from EGBT to EDDK at 270 and the router failed FYI timing out.
I get various routes, depending on how I set the parameters (using a Meridian). If you set the minimum level to FL270, then it will not accept anything below that for the enroute segment which probably has no solution. It’s better to choose FL270 as your preferred level or in case of a turbine aircraft optimize for fuel consumption. However, there is a better route at FL260 (DCT ADMIS M189 CLN UL620 HMM Z45 DOMEG Z841 GETNI T858 KOPAG KOPAG1V) and I’ll have to investigate why it wasn’t presented.
Just wanted to say thank you for the great tool. Flew yesterday/today from LOAN to EDFE and back, worked flawlessly.
I have been unable to break the router with any route I have thrown at it. Even ones like EGKA-LGST (not actually flyable without a ferry tank) via various fly-through waypoints in the Alps.
I am using the default TB20 model which is based on my 2002 TB20, but with only the 55%-power column present. One could enter a lot more data (higher power settings are available at lower levels) but it doesn’t change the routing much.
The default TB20 model is quite good for “light GA with oxygen” usage because you can use it up to FL190.
I use these parameters
Does “Unable to determine enroute segment” just mean too low for a route to be found? Route in question is EGNX – EIWT FL100 max
Does “Unable to determine enroute segment” just mean too low for a route to be found? Route in question is EGNX – EIWT FL100 max
It means that under the constraints given, there is no solution to the equation. We can’t know the reason. However in your case there is another problem because I can’t find a solution at all. Probably something fishy with the Dublin arrival rules. I’ve opened a ticket and we’ll look into it. Thanks for the report.
I get various routes, depending on how I set the parameters (using a Meridian). If you set the minimum level to FL270, then it will not accept anything below that for the enroute segment which probably has no solution.
Thanks. The pref FL works better but still struggled. Ended up filing lower and will fix in the air.
Beware
I’ve been made aware that a very small number of UK pilots were unaware that this route generator is for Eurocontrol IFR routes.
These lie in (essentially) controlled airspace, and they are generally at a high altitude. What this means varies according to the country. In France you can hack around at FL070 and the airspace is uniform to FL190. In the UK, the lowest level achievable with the full IFR service (London Control) is around 5000ft and that tends to be used for IR (FTO) training flights; almost nobody uses it for flying A to B and anyway you cannot go anywhere near the London TMA where the crossings are ~ FL90/100 minimum.
The problem is that, in the UK airspace, you can generate a route at some low level like 4000ft (or you can even call it FL040) and it will validate by Eurocontrol. But you can’t fly it on the day – ATC won’t let you. The best you will get is that the flight plan will have been rejected by London Control (the south) or Manchester Control (middle) and you end up hacking OCAS… in all respects like a VFR flight but in IMC if there is any IMC.
So people who want to fly “proper IFR” in the UK need to file for something “decisively IFR” like FL100 minimum. If they want to go lower and get the proper IFR service they really need to know their standard route documents.
Of course the old timers in this game know all this but I just want to make it extra clear that it is possible to generate an “impossible” low level route.
Personally I don’t see any technological solution to preventing somebody filing an “impossible” low level route – as long as NATS do not supply Eurocontrol with full details of the ATC policies and as long as Eurocontrol validate such a route.
Years ago, when I was starting IR training, I wrote an article on this, which I have just updated – here. As always, any corrections are appreciated.
