Ultranomad wrote:
…but the “cheap labour” would be anything but cheap…
Some years ago I worked with a Chinese student on the same project who was about to finish his engineering studies in Germany. He wanted to return to Shanghai after getting his diploma (master), but all his applications were returned as “too expensive”. He found out that they either hire engineers from India or outsource the engineering tasks to India altogether. So the days of cheap labor, at least for highly qualified personnel, are already over in China. (BTW: He stayed in Germany and works for Airbus in Hamburg now).
it is perfectly feasible to organise high-quality production in China even in small batches, but the “cheap labour” would be anything but cheap
Right, and on top of that you have the whole management issue, running a business in a country whose culture is alien enough to be on Jupiter. The “Monday Truck” which runs HK to mainland China (a bribery scheme for Chinese customs officers) is just the start. If you have to fold the company there is a significant chance of the local management being murdered (I had one case like that; the management escaped to Taiwan really fast). Bribery is endemic and often involves the services of very young girls. You need to send somebody out there full time; for obvious reasons it is best to choose a single guy so at least he has a bit of fun when not working 
So what is the point in making stuff out there unless there is some big payback? I can’t think of any.
Shipping is damn expensive. Air freight is expensive, sea freight is cheap but takes 25 days port to port, 35 days door to door if you are lucky. So your money is tied up for much longer.
I would not be surprised if the quality culture improves to a very reasonable level within, say, 10 years
People have been saying that for 40 years 
And one cannot compare China with Japan. Japan got ridiculed too in their early days (1960s) but they have a strong inner drive for high quality – perfection basically. China never had that.
The question is only whether any cost advantage will remain by that time.
It won’t, which means few Western companies will be making high quality stuff out there – except in massive quantities when good quality can be achieved via production techniques (high end smartphones etc).
So, back on topic, I don’t see this plane being marketed successfully in the West. They have not done anything with it for 14 years after all, comprehensively missing the boat before Cirrus took it over.
Remember the two Swedish car manufacturers?
Saab was sold to the Americans, no longer exists. Volvo was sold to the Americans, then to the Chinese. Now 90-series cars are being imported from China to Europe.
There’s simply nothing the Chinese couldn’t manufacture or engineer, if they so decide. GA aircraft are a very poor business in a global sense. But China is a vast country and a global superpower. They need to be present in all ranks of aviation.
The Chinese missed the boat, and Cirrus took it over… Cirrus being 100% US owned – oh wait…
Peter wrote:
Maybe immediately post-WW2 Germany didn’t have a great reputation?
Even during it. There is even a joke about that in Dad’s army where an old gentlemen unnerves bystanders by stating what great stuff the Germans invented.
check the first several minutes only…
Peter wrote:
And one cannot compare China with Japan. Japan got ridiculed too in their early days (1960s) but they have a strong inner drive for high quality – perfection basically. China never had that.
I think that’s true, and I can’t see the Chinese ever getting to the point the Japanese occupy now – generally the best engineered vehicles and consumer-purchased machinery made anywhere. Also true I think about the public corruption in China, that is the biggest problem anywhere if you want to manufacture in country. Private corruption is more easily managed, as a friend of mine who retired (permanently) to California from Hong Kong at age 42 says knowingly – but he was only sourcing clothing not something technically rigorous.
My view on this aircraft is that it’s likely an ego reinforcing Chinese government exercise, not a real business. They are not naive enough to believe Americans will buy them, and I don’t think they want to develop private aircraft ownership in China.
Silvaire wrote:
My view on this aircraft is that it’s likely an ego reinforcing Chinese government exercise, not a real business. They are not naive enough to believe Americans will buy them, and I don’t think they want to develop private aircraft ownership in China.
achimha wrote:
That xenophobic and stereotypical comment is a bit outdated, Peter
About a year ago I have imported a small size and light external power unit (14v-28v) that is suitable and powerful enough to start a Lyco IO540 engine. First I tested the unit on 3 cars, all worked fine, then I tried to start an Arrow and a Navajo, it never worked.
My cousin had a similar unit that he was testing on lorries and also sold smaller versions as a back up power source for cars. These units started to be returned as faulty. The manufacturer refused to replace the faulty unit although they were under warranty. He opened several units and found that the internal cables melted.
Chinese Little Eagle 700 – a Cessna clone
They could have made it more modern
Cessna must have copied them!
