The Cirrus Light Sport project was started in 2007, when a) there was a huge LSA hype, b) piston sales were at peak and c) the economy was buzzing. In September 2008 came the big blow and the project was put on hold. As soon as the market had generally recovered a bit, it had become clear that the LSA market was not as big a business as people had hoped. Also, Cirrus was financially very challenged after 2008 and then decided to put all their effort in the jet.
There is not really a hole in the market for basic two seat trainers. See the Aquila A210, the Tecnam P2008 and the AT-3. The bitter fact is however that these (certified) aircraft cost between 170.000 and 240.000 Euros nowadays and very few people (or flightschools) have the money for that.
it cannot be built so it remains below its MTOW with two modern size adults, unless it is stripped down to a nearly bare tubular frame
I’m not so sure about that, the DA20 as well as the Aquila carry a lot more than a C150 and are better suited to modern size adults.
I think CD couldn’t come to an agreement with FK so decided to pour what they had into the jet instead. Not sure that was such a good idea, but we’ll see. It’s upmarket alright…
- Boscomantico is probably right about the financial situation.
I’m pretty sure the number of cirrus in Italy is around 40, and (but I’m less sure) in UK around 70.
Going back to the thread title, I’d like to share what I learnt about Cirrus Turbo while in the process of purchasing my last plane. The TAT system, factory-installed by Cirrus between 2007 and 2010 mainly on G3s, can be retrofit to almost any SR22 at a cost of 65k (including oxygen system and composite prop). With the G3 bigger tanks (92gals vs 82gals of the G2), the range is identical to a NA G2, but with 25-35kts more speed, and able to climb at 1000-1400 ft/min till high altitude.
From 2010 Cirrus installed Continental turbo engines, whose only advantage over the TAT is that they do not invalidate the engine warranty for new planes (for used planes this is not relevant, and actually some say TAT is better).
Turbo SR22 before sn.2618 (end 2007) had an old type of exhausts who will crack almost certainly before 400-800hrs, and will cost 14k to replace with the new type.
1 over 3 Turbo on the market will not provide POH performance numbers at altitude because of bad tuning and therefore high temps: only the (few) maintenance shops who have test pilots able or willing to climb to fl250 a few times will be able to fine-tune a turbo in order to make the POH numbers: hence the concept of “critical altitude” better explained on COPA, i.e. the maximum density altitude where a Turbo SR22 can fly at max LOP power (85%) without busting the CHT and TIT temp limits (which in a Turbo are more important parameters then EGT, differently from a NA Cirrus). My plane has fl240 as critical altitude, but I tried some with just fl140 as critical altitude (so what’s the point of having a Cirrus Turbo if you can never see 200TAS?), and COPA is full of examples between fl170 and fl220 as critcal altitudes.
Quote With the G3 bigger tanks (92gals vs 82gals of the G2), the range is identical to a NA G2, but with 25-35kts more speed
That sounds quite extraordinary? 10 more gallons, the same range, at the same power but the turbo with higher TAS? So, why is anyone buying the Turbo in Europe? Can the G2 be retrofitted with the larger tanks to extend the range beyond the G3 Turbo?
No way to change the tanks, because the Cirrus has a wet wing, The tanks are integral part of the wing. But I think I can live with with the +1000 NM range of my G2 NA.
What does a normal Annual cost for a ST22TN? Because a friend up here mentioned he just paid £10k + 20% VAT for the inspection and that doesn’t include the cost to replace 3 cracked cylinders…
…but it certainly included at lof of other stuff!
In Europe, the annual inspection flat fee for a non-turbo is about 2600£, plus VAT. For a turbo, I guess it will be a tad more, maybe 3000.
This is for the inspection, including a few standard parts. Then, you have to add parts and labor required to solve discrepancies.
It is impossible to say “how much” in total an annual will cost, as this depends on a lot of factors.
But north of 10k… I would say either the aircraft was junk or they did a lot of stuff that didn’t need doing.
Seriously: a few repairs here and there (exhaust?), plus a few components undergoing periodical inspection or overhaul (mags, alternators, batteries…) and it can add up quickly.
Too little information.
Yes that’s what I would have thought…,
Unfortunately I won’t see him for 2 weeks to find out more…
Also i will say that it is a G3 GTS with Perspective and TKS… Done maybe 500 hrs
Well yes, at 500 hours, owners normally do the mags, the alternators and afew other things.
Also, if it is the 6th annual, he probably had the CAPS line cutters done.
Cylinder work on three jugs at 500 hours is not nice, but not all too uncommon on the turbo engines, unfortunately.
