Menu Sign In Contact FAQ
Banner
Welcome to our forums

Phoenix U15 or Super Dimona - flying IFR legally in Europe?

Well join the club you can’t have it all but a lot ;-) I used to own a Taifun 17E flew it 7 times from Belgium to Hungary and thought I needed something faster eventually, Flew a M20J couple of years VFR to Hungary realizing I needed to have an IFR rating to do this more safely drilling through clouds. The last 10 years I flew a BE35, IFR fantastic aircraft… Next year I am back to a TMG a Ximango the best compromise :-) for gliding and touring. I wouldn’t like to be in the clouds and icing in a laminar flow wing though….You gotta pick the aircraft for the mission :-). Try a Taifun with a stronger engine L2400 120Kts you can go to FL140 :-) on 20L/hr mogas..you’r dispatch rate may vary

Last Edited by Vref at 20 Dec 15:56
EBST

When I am travelling around if I can fly IFR and night VFR I will not be caught in a position to interrupt a trip just before my destination because of bad visibility or bad time management (night VFR)

Most airports that allow IFR and NVFR will complain about parking space for TMG wing span, it’s something to keep in mind unless you plan on using spots of large aircraft

I fly from Rouen, I saw few UK based S10 & G109 parked on large jets spots, however, our based pure gliders are prohibited from main runway and main apron, they land on grass and park in their trailers

I know Switzerland is one of the rare countries where many large internationale IFR airports do allow gliding operations but elsewhere it’s very rare to have these kind of setups

Last Edited by Ibra at 20 Dec 16:31
Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

Joaquim, what about first getting all the ratings on your distinguished list

To say frankly, the IFR SEP thing is a bit of a myth. It is glorified here on EuroGA, but when you look at the practicals, it is not of much help, the more so in a TMG… of course, a Bonanza, a SR22, or some other SEP toy in the expensive to very expensive category can be flown in IMC. But with light de-icing capabilities such as TKS or boots, no weather radar, the going is tough in any kind of real weather. Having lightning bolts discharge nearby whilst fighting turbulence that disconnects the autopilot might be roller coaster fun to you (I’ve done it, and it sure was no fun to me…), not sure the kids nor the wife will appreciate any of it though.
To fully benefit from your IFR rating you would need a “big airport”, with IFR approaches and departures. We have a few airplanes on my field flying IFR. But since the field is strictly VFR, they need VFR conditions to take-off, and until reaching the IFR pick-up point above the MSA. Same on the return.
Which means when them IFR boys go, VFR, I go as well. And since I don’t have to fly IFR airways nor procedures, I choose the most direct route and usually make it before any equal performance ship

Ibra wrote:

Switzerland is one of the rare countries where many large internationale IFR airports do allow gliding operations

Well, I guess operating out of ZRH or GVA with an IFR TMG one would get a lot of practice. Practice in flying the different holdings that is…

PS
Shields are up, shoot guys

Last Edited by Dan at 20 Dec 17:24
Dan
ain't the Destination, but the Journey
LSZF, Switzerland

Well, I guess operating out of ZRH or GVA with an IFR TMG one would get a lot of practice. Practice in flying the different holdings that is…

I was more impressed by Sion setup with VFR gliders and IFR jets

Altough it’s not an IFR airport for “SEP GA” due to site qualification (you can still fly there in low weather: you need the right experience and aircraft plus the “Sunny VMC” poker face with sunglasses )

Last Edited by Ibra at 20 Dec 17:35
Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

VFR gliders and IFR jets

and the military

Funny you mention LSGS, I was there for lunch today…
At the time I was flying the Avro RJ85/100 I was rated for the place and the IGS, albeit many moons ago… we usually ferried from ZRH, and then picked-up, or brought back skiers from/to AMS or LHR. Unfortunately the market has not taken the direction the airport had longed for, as most ski charters nowadays fly into GVA from where the skiers proceed by bus(es) to their respective resort.

Dan
ain't the Destination, but the Journey
LSZF, Switzerland

Get the right avionics and just do it. Just use common sense. And yes, you can do it without an autopilot.

Germany

JFonseca wrote:

Super Dimona (used 1990)
- Much cheaper

Caution here- Dimona needs big factory inspection (ca 20KEUR) at either 2000 or 3000 hours, don’t remember which..

EETU, Estonia

Caution here- Dimona needs big factory inspection (ca 20KEUR) at either 2000 or 3000 hours, don’t remember which..

Hi ivark,

Thanks so much for the heads up. I am in discussions with a Super Dimona owner, and the price is low enough that I can accommodate for a big maintenance bill and even to upgrade the electronics, and still spend less than half of the price of a new Phoenix U15. In any case the next big expense with this SD, that I am aware of, is the engine overhaul, for which I still have 800h to go. After reading your post I searched and found a Maintenance Manual. The belts and propeller are good until 2024 and the hoses are good until 2026. The fuel lines are already in Kevlar, it was painted with PU a few years ago and the canopy is in good shape. I has suffered a landing damage that it was factory repaired many years ago and is not visible, other than that it looks good, and the maintenance has always been on time and thorough. The fact that the Dimona is a certified aircraft and Phoenix is a ULM is also weighing in my decision, because anything with “certified” on it, is at least 30% more expensive! An this might be a strong reason to go for the Phoenix.

Year 1990
Total hours 3929
Engine hours 552 (TBO: 1400h)
Launches 8084

According to the maintenance manual:
Engine and propeller inspections must be performed every 50, 100, 200, and 1000 engine operating hours.
Airframe inspections must be performed every 100, 200, 1000 and at 6000 flight hours.
If the airplane is operated less than 200 hours per year, a 200 hour inspection must be performed once a year.

So with this data it seems that it will need a 1000h airframe inspection soon (in 71h) and a 200h engine inspection in less than 50h, right? Any idea of the costs?

Anything else that I should be aware of?

Thanks in Advance,
Joaquim

Last Edited by JFonseca at 23 Dec 15:05
EBSH, Switzerland

I think you are not affected by the expensive 3000hr check- we had H36 “non-super” Dimona, which had default lifetime of 3000hr .

EETU, Estonia
19 Posts
Sign in to add your message

Back to Top