zuutroy wrote:
Fixed gear and prop SEP
Fixed gear VP SEP
Retractable VP SEP
1. 32 hours
2. 36 hours
3. 40 hours.
A good average of £60.00 per hour labour rate plus parts
Fixed gear and prop SEP
Fixed gear VP SEP
Retractable VP SEP
1. 32 hours
2. 36 hours
3. 40 hours.
A good average of £60.00 per hour labour rate plus parts
So even for a lowly SEP, even just for the inspection, i.e. zero squawks, and excluding materials/parts, one ready spends roughly 3000 Euros (VAT included).
That‘s just the way it is if the annual is done by a professional shop and without owner assistance.
It makes invoices of 5000-6000 Euros look totally realistic if a few (minor) things need fixing/reapir/replacement.
P.S. I do think that 32 hours for a basic SEP is a rather high number.
boscomantico wrote:
I do think that 32 hours for a basic SEP is a rather high number.
I agree, but again that depends highly on the type.
There are huge differences between airplanes, some are complex to work with, others are dead easy. 32 hours should be an upper limit.
What is within my experience however is the actual Delta between the various degrees of complexity, again depending on the airplane.
On the TB20:
50hr check: 5 man-hrs (2-man job due to cowlings)
Annual: Additional 3 days, say 25hrs
Plus rectification / “special customer requests” 
Basic Annual parts come to about £300. Air filters, o-rings, and the two nose gear gas struts (precautionary; no actual need, and I have a pile of perfectly good ones here). If you do the whole “Socata Part M list” it is another 1k or so due to stupid stuff like replacing the stainless steel fuel filter which should just be cleaned and inspected.
A fair bit of the 25hrs is spent on accessing stuff e.g. removing belly panels, cleaning them, and carefully replacing them and siliconing around the gaps to make sure no TKS fluid gets in (something almost nobody does, and pays the price later).
The basic “company” price, ~10 years ago, used to be £500+VAT for the 50hr check, and £2500+VAT for the Annual, but the latter didn’t include essentials like cleaning and greasing the landing gear or frankly greasing anything… I used to fly the plane to another company for that; could not do it myself because you need jacks, which needs a hangar… which… comes back to what I always say about hangars
People who don’t want to get involved, or don’t know how to, or can’t, will pay 5k+ for an Annual with no rectification work.
Bear in mind also that most airport politics affects all types equally so a given amount of work done by a company on an RV will cost almost the same as the work done on a certified type with the same engine, parts, etc. The “huge cost savings” usually claimed for homebuilts are based entirely on these types living within a different community, with different “politics”. That’s another story…
Some old threads around here about 1k annual CAMO charges…
boscomantico wrote:
P.S. I do think that 32 hours for a basic SEP is a rather high number.
The reason I put that, I have no real experience on these types, is that most EASA shops work to LAMP. This is the gotcha..
I remember they used to charge the CAMO charge of 2k plus VAT before you even started on the annual. I think that has disappeared. Again no real recent experience.
Am with @BeechBaby those look quite realistic. Lots more bits and pieces come off at the annual and have to be put back together. You then have to factor in how your maintenance plan will treat either regulatory or Manufacturer time in service intervals.
Items that might not get done in a pencil whip annual for a simple SEP:
1. Clean and re pack wheel bearings
2. Clean and inspect engine oil pump filter
3. Flight control lubrication and rigging check
4. Fuel system items
5. Pitot static and encoder check
6. Hose condition check
Obviously as the type becomes more complex and has specific quirks for the type, the list may get longer.
The screw up factor are the unknown, unknowns. We can plan AD compliance, SB, upgrades we planned, TBO, etc. What we cannot do is find corrosion on the spar area under the co pilot seat. Corrosion in the tail section. Rusted control wires. Tyres, brake discs and pads. I could go on…
You then fall under the spell of the shop ordering parts, plus shipping, with no real concern, nor time admittedly, for shopping around for deals. Also that then rules out picking up good quality after market parts, or used with cert.
You are now a feather in the wind financially.
zuutroy wrote:
What do people view, more or less, as a reasonable number of man hours for a decent quality annual for:Fixed gear and prop SEP
Fixed gear VP SEP
Retractable VP SEP
What an interesting question! I will note down the number of hours I take inspecting and doing all that stuff next time.
However, it isn’t quite comparable. I have all those “check items” on the list which are mandatory for the annual/100h/50h respectively, and although it’s quite extensive, I do also check whether I do find anything else. If something’s “calling” I take it on a list and consider how and when to replace it (if it’s something non-critical). So I don’t just tick boxes but take a lot more time for really getting inside that thing so that I may possibly anticipate any upcoming item.
And so far I don’t do the paperwork
PS: I think 4 hours more for CS prop is too much. Work to be done on blades isn’t so much different and the “magic” parts turning a fixed prop into a CS prop will most probably be sent to a shop and done there if an overhaul was necessary. 4 hours more for retractable gear might be o.k., but I think it’s rather less. Because a fixed gear also has parts to check or lube. I don’t think that I needed 4 hours for the gear (only labour, not the exciting time about how does this work and where’s that connected and how). However, every now and then there might be some major work on the gear, so an average of +4 hours might fit
You then fall under the spell of the shop ordering parts, plus shipping, with no real concern, nor time admittedly, for shopping around for deals. Also that then rules out picking up good quality after market parts, or used with cert.
That is largely mismanagement of maintenance, because at each annual one is supposed to spot stuff like that creeping up on you, and then make a note of ordering any required parts in good time. Sometimes items are found on the Annual which have to get done at the first 50hr check, because you can’t get the parts fast enough – I have a few right now.
It is very rare to suddenly find a load of corrosion, which wasn’t there at all a year before.
Peter wrote:
It is very rare to suddenly find a load of corrosion, which wasn’t there at all a year before.
Thats a bit like saying you should have noticed the crack underneath the exhaust, or the crack at the base of the cylinder block. Not quite that simple nor straightforward. When did you last lift the co-pilot seat and floorboards?
