Is ownership worth it?

This is basic psychology, because most people tend to advocate for others to follow the path they’ve chosen as a way to validate their own choices. We aren’t objective people, especially when we care about something. That doesn’t mean we can’t get better by really trying, but it’s not the default.

That’s true, but also advice from those who walk the walk is worth a lot more than from those who just talk the talk

And large parts of GA are people who just talk the talk

I know this is 20 years ago but for example absolutely nobody, not one person, involved in the training scene ever mentioned the huge benefits of going N-reg, especially when working towards the IR. It was a total eye-opener, and I thank @Stolman for telling me about it. Today the margin is narrower (due to the FAA licensing route being impossible to do wholly from Europe, and due to EASA having made things a little easier… after JAA made them considerably harder) but in GA more than in any other field I have known you have to make things with the materials available on the day.

I think a big step occurs when an aircraft is wanted for genuine IFR.
If you want a genuine IFR aircraft to use with an IR, then buy something that is just-that already.

Preferably one that has been used that way by the previous owner.
They will have needed to keep in top of some of the systems and maybe all of them.

A VFR only pilot, can tollerate a lot of sqwarks.

An aircraft close to being IFR can be a money pit when trying to cross that line back to fully IFR.

I experienced this when shopping, and finally concluded that if I couldn’t buy (afford) the setup I wanted, (Definitely ready-to-go IFR) I probably couldn’t afford the necessary upgrades either.

In our £45k Robin we had 2 radios, 2VOR/ILS, 2 Alt, ADF, DME.
She wasn’t IFR anymore due to lack of FM immunity and really needed a GPS navigator upgrade. The quote was Circa £40K.
1x 8.33 radio later I’m sure the new owners were having a great time in their new capable (VFR) tourer.
Obviously this doesn’t help the O/P but may be useful input for others.
Sticking to the subject of the original title, ownership is like beauty, (all in the eye and mind of the beholder)
VFR hacks can be rented from anywhere you want to pop to, and will suffice for a VFR bimble. But for an IFR trip to somewhere nice overnight or two? At fairly short notice? With a flexible calender to work around your personal wx minima, or aircraft minima? That won’t be booked by someone else? Some fly from clubs where this is possible and that’s indeed fantastic.
Well that’s not possible within acceptable range here for me.
Each has to work out his own tollerances and satisfy his own expectations.
Of everyone i know that has tried to make it work it lasted for a year and then fizzled out 1 gave up flying. 1 bought and 1 went commercial and we all know what he’s been doung for a year.
Only each individual can work out if it’s worth it.

There are some clubs which are indeed better than ownership. @Boscomantico seems to have some really nice club aircraft with flexible hiring. It is a pity there are not more of these flying clubs around.

I think Richard Bach had a nice short story about a mythical flying club with like minded devoted pilot members.

Ah yes Bosco definitely seems to have hit the jackpot. I’m sure there are many others, and if I could do similar it would definitely make me switch from ownership.

GA_Pete wrote:

But for an IFR trip to somewhere nice overnight or two? At fairly short notice? With a flexible calender to work around your personal wx minima, or aircraft minima? That won’t be booked by someone else? Some fly from clubs where this is possible and that’s indeed fantastic.

I am assuming you mean regular flyer not ad-hoc renting?

From my experience, ad-hoc IFR renting does not work unless it’s G1000 + GFCx00 or old steam pack with standard layout, the rest of mix of glass & steam in some pannels is just not healthy, either you go full glass or full steam !

Then weather flying with unfamiliar non standard avionics layouts is real hard work, if you add new complex systems for fuel, prop, gear, electrics, autopilot, displays, EFIS…it will take 25h of flying to get used to IFR in aircraft and maybe dream to fly it to minima, for VFR on same aircraft, only 1h of checkout is enough, you learn as you go, may even read POH in cruise while hand flying and talking to ATC

dutch_flyer wrote:

This is basic psychology, because most people tend to advocate for others to follow the path they’ve chosen as a way to validate their own choices

Indeed. They say selling aircraft is selling dreams. You cannot really argue with another person’s dreams, but you don’t need to listen, and if you do, there is no reason to take them seriously Have you ever asked a person who has fulfilled his dream if it was worth it? the answer is given, and especially if the journey to get there was a rough one

Unfortunately, most airplanes are poorly maintained. I takes a lot of money and a lot of time to look after an airplane properly. The more complex the airplane is, the more time and money it takes. Most owners just don’t know what to do, and many mechanics don’t seem to have a love for the job, especially when some disinterested owner is wondering why it is taking so long and costing so much.

I have owned my current airplane (a Saratoga, so complex single, full IFR) for about 5 years. When I bought it, it was about 15 years old, and had always been hangared. I looked over it for a few minutes, and looked at the logs for an hour or two. After owning a number of airplanes, I had an idea of what to look for and what meant what. The overall picture told me that it was probably a solid airplane, but needed 15-25 aviation units to get right. (1 aviation unit = 1K euro/$/GBP).

My mechanic did the pre-buy. We spent about 3 hours on the airplane, and about 2 hours on the logs. You might think this is a very short time, but we knew what we were looking for. The engine was high time, so we only cared if it started. Engines are bolt off/bolt on components of the airplane, and cylinders are bolt off/bolt on components of the engine.

It did take about 20 aviation units in the first year. It took about 2-3 months to get the airplane reliable for IFR trips with the family. Since then, it has been a very nice airplane. But it looks identical to the day I bought it (Now very shiny inside and out, I have learned a lot about aircraft and car detailing). All the fixes are things you can’t see.

There is a big variation in maintenance costs. If you buy an old dog, it may be cheap to buy but it could cost tens of k in year one. Same if you got conned and didn’t spot it on a prebuy. I bought my TB20 new and spent relatively “nothing” on it since in terms of unscheduled maintenance. Wrote a long article here which is worth a read for anyone buying a plane even if quite a different type because the basic principles apply equally.

Working with an A&P/IA, annuals cost me about 2k. If I used a company it would be about 5k and only half the work would get done.

We had a great discussion on Zoom a few months ago on ownership costs, with a few people presenting their stories.

I didn’t buy an old dog and it still cost tens of k (well two of them) in the first year. And that’s what I was expecting. Fortunately, I have a mechanic who has a genuine love for the job and the skills to match.

I read an interview sometime back with the owner of Bartlett Aviation in the US. They sell of lot of Saratogas, and focus on the premium end of the market. He said that the typical Saratoga that comes to them to be sold has 15-25K USD squawks on it – and these are mostly expensive planes, owned by expensive people.

Peter, it would be interesting to speculate what you would find in a typical TB20. Not a beater, but something that looked like it was correctly maintained by an typical mechanic at a typical shop, owned by a typical owner. Lets say the airplane was 20 years old, always hangared, all ADs done. With what you know about TB20s, what would it take to bring it up to your standards? And what percentage of TB20s would be at your standard to start with?