Is ownership worth it?

There’s a lot of money involved in flying and when talking with the wrong people, owners tend to get milked like a cow.

Mine was in fact massively overpriced, compared to the money I wanted to spend. as are most of the good things. But it’s definitely worth it. My flying has changed a lot, and we are still in pandemic times…

So dutch_flyer, when they’re finished on yours, just keep it as it is and enjoy flying!

One problem, which I found strongly, is that almost everybody who is not an owner will try to discourage you.

Obviously you start life at a PPL school and they are not likely to recommend ownership because they will lose your self fly hire / additional training money. And if they recommend a plane to buy it is likely to be something totally unsuitable and suggested without any regard for what sort of flying you want to do.

If you ask people in syndicates, you may get useful data but only if the syndicate is used to go places. Most aren’t.

So, here comes EuroGA

I think it’s fair to say most real proper ownership disaster stories were ones where the person didn’t take advice from other experienced owners and/or had a poor prebuy done (or no prebuy at all). Unfortunately bad or nonexistent prebuys are common. There are loads of people out there who talk the talk on forums to get prebuy business but do a crap job. And there are psychological factors; if you travelled hundreds of nm to see the thing, you will almost certainly buy it unless it is a total pile of junk (and that’s true for planes and cars, as I well know myself).

I really wanted to buy a ready-to-go airplane, but have you looked at PlaneCheck? It’s close to impossible to find something that doesn’t need work, especially if your requirements include night + IFR.

I look at planecheck quite a bit. Sometimes I see myself looking back at me on planecheck

Glass panels are a pain when they go wrong. We have had them at every end of the spectrum, from a smokey MGL in an Alpi right the way up to a graphics card costing €132k for a PC12 Honeywell screen. Indeed fixing a glass panel is tomorrow morning’s job, which should be done under €2k. Everyone loves to say they fly glass cockpit, nobody loves to fix glass cockpit. Keep your money for fuel and maintenance.

People have done remarkable trips to every corner of the world, in relatively simple aircraft with modest panels. We have lots of nice aeroplanes for sale that don’t need work, they just need the correct nut behind the wheel.

I cannot naturally tell for other people if it is worth of owning a plane but for myself it sure is. It does cost some money but I always want to have everything pretty cheap.
Some 35 years ago I had a C150 in the USA for one and half a year and I miss the easy principles there.. no 100 hours checks else than the annual. So it was simply awfully cheap to fly and change oil. I and my friends did about 700 hours in that time…. almost lived in the plane, flying around the US and Mexico, Central America until Panama City. In 1987 I bought it for 7000 and sold in Guatemala for 5000. Not too bad – and we sure had great time. That you could not do with a rented plane or it would be awfully expensive.

For the last 30 years I had been flying with rented planes for not having money to buy another plane. But the flight club has a lot of problems even with pretty cheap prices: you have to find a slot to use one of the planes – and it is often difficult to reserve the slot several days in advance. If the weather happens to be good, that slot may be sold later. And if you fly away for a few days, there is some minimum limit for flight hours per day.. and you are not allowed to land to somebody’s field. I mean a real farm field here, not airfield. Have to wash the plane always after return even if you are busy to get to bed or such. And the club has one person who almost lives at the airport and always goes to give “advice” top other people about how they should do anything – that is really annoying. Last Saturday one guy was filling the tank of a plane and this man went there again – I saw that and thought “oh boy, how great to have an own plane at another airport, so I never more have to listen to that…”

I always buy cars of about 500 euros, so I could finance the plane for a little more that 10 000. It will take a few thousands per year but now can fly 50-60 hours per year anytime anywhere, and in the future let my sons use it as well, so to me it is really worth of having. As long as I have that money to keep it.
Some people put that same money to restaurants, or buy a car or own a horse or such. You throw the money somewhere, anyway. Money is an odd invention: what ever you do, it disappears somewhere. This is not the worst somewhere.

WilliamF wrote:

a graphics card costing €132k for a PC12 Honeywell screen

A well maintained PC12/45 with Bendix EFIS has a lot to recommend it. The /47 with Honeywell Apex is quite a jump in annual opex due to looking after the heavy iron Honeywell Apex. The /45 is also better on useful load.

Pre March 2020 they could be found for $1.5mm, now no longer!

Peter wrote:

almost everybody who is not an owner will try to discourage you

One could also say that the opposite is true, almost all plane owners will encourage you to owning your plane :-)

dutch_flyer wrote:

But I want to travel with a reasonable dispatch rate, so for me that means good lights and an IFR panel with a WAAS GPS. Surprisingly few aircraft for sale in Europe meet those criteria, which meant I was almost certain to have to do an avionics upgrade.

Most of us read planecheck before breakfast

WilliamF wrote:

A common mistake is seeing someone upgrading their first aeroplane extensively.

Their “First” airplane yes, if they are planning on upgrading later I am fully with you.

In many instances, like mine for instance, it is “clear” that the current purchase is the “forever” plane, as it is most likely the only one we can ever afford. In that case, upgrading to what you want it to be makes sense.

When I got my plane it was then VFR as it lacked some of the gold plating Switzerland had for IFR, but would have been almost luxorious in other countries. (GNS430, KX155, KN64, ADF, KT76A. plus T Panel). Still, I wanted an autopilot and I fancied (massively) an Aspen. At the time, the KN64 was not allowed for IFR in Switzerland so I purchased a KN62A from a forumite here in exchange for my KN64. The Aspen would kill 2 birds with one stone: HSI (required) and 2nd altimeter.

That I wanted an Autopilot was always clear to me, but even more so after my first 2 longer flights without one (Bulgaria and Croatia)

Originally I planned on a Stec 30 for the AP as it was the cheapest one which holds altitude, but at the time, S-tec had a promotion which offered the bare STEC 55x for the same price. Sucker for line and sinker I went for it only to find out I needed quite a lot more (Automatic trim, Remote display and some other stuff) to get the FD I wanted. It cost more the 2 times the then value of the airplane to buy and install all this in 2014.

But: It is a totally different feel to fly today. I am happy with the upgrade and it will likely stay that way unless regulations force me to upgrade (probably the KX155 will have to go eventually in favour for a 2nd GNS430W) but I don’t regret it one moment. Today I can fly this airplane as I always wanted it.

As for glass, I don’t regret the upgrade to the Aspen for one minute. First of all, I love the functionality, I love the fact that it gives you certain information I was really craving (such as TAS, Wind, e.t.c.) and it is a really nice instrument to fly with. I’ll upgrade it to max eventually (when I can find the money) but otherwise, avionic wise, I am done.

I’ve never looked back. Even today, with the G5 and other stuff, I’d probably go the same way. If this came up today, I’d go for the Garmin AP though. Why? IAS Mode. But seeing that the first AP’s I worked with did not have that either, I can deal with VS alone.

What @dutch_flyer is currently experiencing is quite normal for new owners, but hopefully it won’t stay that way. Once he’s got the plane to where he wants it, it should give pleasure for quite a while.

dutch_flyer wrote:

This is basic psychology, because most people tend to advocate for others to follow the path they’ve chosen as a way to validate their own choices.

Not only. Particularly when it comes to club environments, it is simple economics too. They don’t want to loose renters. So they are opposed to people buying airplanes.

Others who oppose it either are envious because they never were allowed to buy one by their wifes could never afford it.