125kg… I am afraid I’ll up the average a bit.
I’ll reinforce the average a bit at 90kg, with the same excuse as @Winston, at 1,9 m tall.
Although it depends on your torso length, I don’t think the Pipistrel would work for you Winston. Seat is already on the floor, and this creates (al least for me) an uncomfortable position with legs almost straight out.
Nice post by @Lesving. It is exactly how it works here too. Many folks hook up in a group and go traveling. Some with spouse but mostly with friends or fellow pilots.
Owning such a “motorcycle” makes a whole lot of sense, mostly because that’s how this whole UL thing is designed.
It’s pretty much the same for many people here in the US, except the planes used are anything the owner likes. Warbirds, certified tailwheel planes, Bonanzas, Russian stuff and RVs being some non UL examples, some certified and some not, with whatever number of seats works for the owner and his family. Often on fly-outs it’s a mixture of many types of planes. It’s fun to guess whether a Helio Courier or a small squadron of Jungmanns will beat a Cessna 170 to the destination, or whether the Aeronca Chanp that left 20 minutes before will be waiting. ULs are fine for those who choose them but it would seem a shame to me to limit the scene to any one classification or type, diversity is a good thing and scarcity is not. The effort should be to expand the variety of types, including the regulatory changes to make that happen, not to shrink into a box and call it progress.
If you want to go places with friends or family most two-seaters (ULM or not) are not an option.
Well, it depends how large your family is…
As baggage carrying capability is concerned, even RV7 / 9 will handle two bromptons.
Silvaire wrote:
ULs are fine for those who choose them but it would seem a shame to me to limit the scene to any one classification or type
No one is limiting anything for any purpose whatsoever. It’s more that ULs are in great numbers, and they fit the purpose particularly well. Experimentals/homebuilt usually also do the same. In fact, the shiny metallic Savannah on that picture is a homebuilt.
On this forum it’s easy to get the impression that flying is either “going places” or “bimbling” or “puddle jumping” or whatever. Neither of those things are particularly descriptive of the majority of private GA in Europe today. For most GA pilots, the social aspect is as large as the flying aspect. Roaming around the country side in packs simply is a very fun and very social thing to do 
Many flies huge distances this way, over many days. What limits larger trips is life first and foremost. One per year is as much as most people can hope to do, often it’s much less.
LeSving wrote:
What limits larger trips is life first and foremost. One per year is as much as most people can hope to do, often it’s much less.
If they take forever certainly. Also there is the passenger side to consider. Looking in my logbook I’ve done stuff like flying a Cessna 150 with 90 kts and 2 fuel stops to Spain and back or to Leipzig once and Vienna (also with fuel stop). Today, I can do those trips non-stop and with 150 kts, so I can go to places like LEJ or VIE in a day and be back in the evening or next day and have plenty of time at the destination for the family to see the city and do (for them) fun stuff.
Especcially today where people have no time to waste, being able to fly at a decent speed and range is important.
LeSving wrote:
For most GA pilots, the social aspect is as large as the flying aspect.
The social aspect is telling lies in the pub mostly. Hardly anyone I know flies in packs. There are flyouts by groups some times, usually once a year or so. But that is it.
Mooney_Driver wrote:
The social aspect is telling lies in the pub mostly. Hardly anyone I know flies in packs. There are flyouts by groups some times, usually once a year or so. But that is it.
We obviously live in different (GA) worlds Meaning we have incompatible experiences.
To be honest I have a hard time understanding why people actually like flying a sedate old aircraft on autopilot at all. I got my PPL in 1992. I flew a bit of aerobatics in the club’s C-152A until a moron smashed it into the hangar when starting it on the ice outside. After that there was doom and gloom. Done it all, seen it all. If you have been to one airport, you have been to them all. They’re all the same. Back then I had a pretty good travelling aircraft at my disposal. This was at the little GA company I got the PPL from, not at the club. They only rented that aircraft out to a few, they used it mostly for taxi flying. Relatively new C-172 with 6 cylinder Continental (I think it was Continental, 6 cylinders at least), CS prop, injection, and fully equipped with everything worth mentioning back then (ADF, VOR, autopilot etc). I pretty much decided, this is not something I would continue spending money on. I’m also 100% confident that this is the reason why must people hang it up within 2-3 years. It’s ultimately boring.
But then one sunny evening a sleek thing flew over my house, hardly making noise at all. Went down to the airport and got myself “converted” to UL, which was easy enough. A bit getting used to so little wing loading and the power to weight ratio. Having done that, I also revalidated my PPL. Mostly because I have used lots of time and money on it, and there was nothing to it now that I was more than current. Then I met other people from “the other side” of GA. Suddenly things started happening. Took tail wheel rating on the Cub (still one favorite aircraft). One thing lead to the other. Started towing gliders in a Pawnee, started building aircraft myself, innstructing etc etc. Flying was fun again. It was worth it. Today STOL has become a big thing, and it’s definitely here to stay.
This is also about the community part. From certified to UL and experimental is like going from corporate BS talk to hands on engineering talk. And rather literally so. Is the aircraft airworthy because some “organization” have found that it checks all the boxes in a vast array of regulations, or is it airworthy because I personally have checked all the nuts and bolts and found them OK. Knowing how those “organizations” use every trick in the book to cover their a$$es while doing as little as possible to actually maintain the aircraft, while charging as many hours as they think they can get away with, I would go for the second approach every single time.
A typical local flight goes like this. I fly to some other field, planned or I hear there’s activity there in the air. Meet the people already there, and the talk is obviously about aircraft. Then someone ask me if I have seen this new shiny experimental Shark this person just got installed in the hangar. I say no, and off we go 2-3 aircraft to that airfield. It’s not much, it’s not spectacular or mind blowing. What it is, it’s very social and it’s very fun, and it’s all about hands on flying and hands on aircraft.
At the same time. It’s not like I would dislike having a twin Diamond, talking my wife to Copenhagen for a weekend. It’s more that I can take my wife to Copenhagen flying SAS or Norwegian for a fraction of the cost and zero work from my part. In all honesty, it’s rather the other way around. It’s my wife with her gold card that organizes and fixes all that with free drinks and food at the lounges, extras at hotels etc, simply because she travels much more with her job than I do. I’m simple coming along, having a nice relaxing time Besides, I would much rather try that Shark with brand new turbo engine from Edgeperformance than flying straight and level on autopilot for hours and hours, even though that Shark is designed and later modded with that Edgeperformance engine + avionics to excel at doing exactly that (flying IFR/VFR high and fast).
I think if we GA pilots in general would free ourselves a bit from all the nonsense created by “over-enthusiastic” EASA and “organizations” and rules and the total deteriorating effect of way too many young and “politically correct” FIs, that has ended up suffocating all and everything instead of opening up possibilities, we wouldn’t create all these walls around us. But, the only way to understand what I’m talking about, is to jump into it. Try an UL, try an experimental. If you don’t like it, fine, try another one. No one really cares what you like or don’t like. I certainly do not, couldn’t care less. What I see today, is things are finally heading for the better. EASA is, so far, not a part of it, and that’s probably just fine. The local authorities are able to handle GA just fine, and much better than EASA ever could.
There are flyouts by groups some times, usually once a year or so. But that is it.
It depends on where you are.
On EuroGA we manage a couple of meetups a year, sometimes more, but this is limited by how much time someone is willing to put into pushing something, for no payment. A few people do it, most don’t. The Spanish fly-in, Sep 2023, was amazing!
One UK group I can think of has a £100+ annual membership fee and a full time “trip organiser”, so they get to do quite a bit.
Then you get national loyalties. If AOPA DE says “we are going to Mali Losinj” about 50 planes will go immediately, every time. If some similar group in France does that, about 50 planes will also go (but only within France). That’s about it for Europe… these two countries are strong but there are few other national loyalties. In the UK, almost nothing.
Then you get brand loyalties. If Cirrus (and particularly German Cirrus) says “we are going to X” 50-100 planes will go. But they charge €400+ (they don’t like this figure published) so only a few people drop out last minute. This was discussed on EuroGA and the consensus was that it is way too cynical. I guess Mooney used to have a similar brand in Europe. And still have in the US. Upmarket, even more; the TBM forum gets people to turn up practically anywhere, and the 3-4 digit attendance fee is enough to lubricate the local police to provide C+I anywhere.
As your flying career advances through time (I mean if you are actually going places) the social aspect will become the main attraction.
The best thing is if you can get your partner (usually this means wife or GF) to fly with you but this is rare, those who did when you met them usually drop out (mine did after 10 years), and this is a big factor behind high-hour GA pilots chucking it in.
LeSving I see your Point. But I fly a Beech guzzling avgas and absolutely love flying this aircraft VFR and IFR and just did a 2 hour TMG flight with a 80 Hp Rotax engine it was just awesome . I don’t see myself spending 350K euro spending on a VL3 without an IFR certification basis. I see myself retiring with my Ximango. I love the IFR environment and it’s challenges and also adore flying VFR…it’s different my Beech is a time machine the motorglider is zen machine to each is own. About the social aspect. Well maybe I am an einzelgänger as the say in German. I enjoy flying alone and love to talk and meet people at all the airfields I fly…I started my flying in gliders flying many hours single alone and that’s basically a teamsport for individualistic personalities…
