what_next wrote:
But it wouldn’t have made a difference, see below.
So, the point then is not that it is illegal to take off from a non-instrument airport into IMC, but the illegality is flying IFR in class G outside of approved procedures. Quite a different thing.
SERA does not make any provision for such an exception. How did Germany get one? Using the same emergency rule that France used for cost-sharing flights?
….so generalising from the German situation into the more general IACO and SERA environment is unlikely to be helpful?
Timothy wrote:
….so generalising from the German situation into the more general IACO and SERA environment is unlikely to be helpful?
Well, It shows that there are national rules and regulations which supersede SERA. Not only in Germany, almost in every member country. Having a look into the relevant AIP or the “national regulations” part of Jeppesen is therefore still necessary before flying outside one’s own state of registration or issue of license.
Sure, but this was all as a result of Emir laying down the law for everyone, presumably from a Croatian perspective.
Germany actually has very little Class G with Class E being predominant above 2500ft agl, in some places this base being 1000ft in the vicinity of aerodromes; there is no need for IFR in their Class G.
I wouldn’t say they are at the different end of the spectrum. I would say they have chosen to use the ICAO airspace classifications correctly. They have neither filed any differences against ICAO or applied a derogation against SERA in this area.
Oh, so they do allow IFR in Class G, according to ICAO? Now I am confused.
No, all I’m saying is that there is nothing in their AIP notifying a difference. Furthermore, their airspace structure and ATS provision is such that there is little/no need to be IFR in Class G. It is a different mindset, something I recollect from working there in the 80s with the rational being that everyone plays by the rules. My recollection is that they don’t prohibit IFR in Class G, they just don’t provide a service other than FIS (akin to the UK Basic Service). If a VFR aircraft bumps into an IFR one then the VFR guy is in the wrong, plain and simple.
So, are you saying that you can and may fly IFR in Class G in Germany, but there’s no point?
That’s not my understanding, but always ready to learn.
Well, It shows that there are national rules and regulations which supersede SERA
National rules and regulationd can’t supersede SERA (or part-NCO). EU regulations are binding law in member states and any national legislation modifying a regulation (either way) is void. SERA (and other EASA regulations) give national authorities leeway in specific cases. IFR in class G is not one of them.
We can be fairly confident that the UK will file and continue to operate reduced VMC minima in Class D airspace. Our whole system will break if we don’t. If EASA/Commission don’t permit that, there is likely to be an impasse.
Maybe the Germans feel the same about IFR in Class G?
