RobertL18C wrote:
Fortunately (because lack of wars!) the air forces of the world do not produce thousands of short commission flight crew (which in turn went into multi engine transport flight decks after 200 hours). Whether some teenager through the self improver route who scared herself in a Cessna 150 is better trained might be difficult to judge
I’d say about half of the US airline pilots I know are ex-military, some left the military on completion of their obligation having aimed to fly in the airlines since day one, others due to market conditions having for example retired as a Commander after 20 years since entering the academy at 18. A good friend whose Bonanza was shown here for sale a while ago 
went that route, going straight from F-18 squadron command to AA first officer, where he remained for a very long time before making captain, a result of furloughs holding him down on the seniority list. He’s now just retired from AA, a bit early due to CV-19 issues. He did get military combat experience, but it had nothing to do with the length of his career or move to the airlines. Prior to joining the military, he was a Private Pilot for a couple of years – he recently told me he’d solo’d in a Grumman AA-1 but now doesn’t really remember much about flying it.
The ‘scaring yourself as a kid in a 150’ thing is obviously only the start of a real world apprenticeship. Flying crappy freight or commuter planes would be next up, along with aerobatics done for fun and physical acclimatization. I’ve known a guy since age 15 who went that route, solo’d a straight tail C172 at 16, PPL at 17 and so on. He used to fly the C172 500 miles to visit his dad at 17, sometimes after dark, then back a couple of days later, which impressed me. Along the way he got an aviation related university degree in Arizona and is now a Southwest captain.
Antonio wrote:
Exactly. If your IAS is good for best glide in the lesser flap setting then no glide loss upon retraction as long as you raise the nose accordingly. If lower IAS, then initially you will do worse as you accelerate, then better as you stabilize the glide. It’s all of this judgement that no one will teach you…hence having been practisingin an earlier or weekend life helps! It is more the attitude and mindset than the detail knowledge
Someone who has trained on a the old Cessna 172’s with 40° flaps should know this… First item on a balked landning after pitching up and applying power is reducing flaps from 40° to 20°. This will not cause a noticeable loss of lift but will give a major reduction in drag. Reducing flaps beyond 20° before acceleration is not a good idea.
Airborne_Again wrote:
In the short term it can shorten the glide
Exactly. If your IAS is good for best glide in the lesser flap setting then no glide loss upon retraction as long as you raise the nose accordingly. If lower IAS, then initially you will do worse as you accelerate, then better as you stabilize the glide. It’s all of this judgement that no one will teach you…hence having been practisingin an earlier or weekend life helps! It is more the attitude and mindset than the detail knowledge
How many airline pilots (remember I work daily with them ) do you think will have @Airborne_Again’s mindset in this regard, with the current training trend?
Antonio wrote:
This lowers drag, extends the glide.
In the long term, yes. In the short term it can shorten the glide. Some lift will be lost when retracting flaps and the aircraft has to accelerate to compensate. If the amount of lift lost is significant then the drag reduction alone may not be enough for acceleration instead the nose has to be lowered.
In the case of BA38, the net effect appears to have been positive.
Antonio wrote:
Retracting the flaps (partially) is what BA38 did to extend the glide (almost) to the runway
Sorry I mis-typed – retracting of course not extending.
Extending flaps to extend the glide can only serve as a last-ditch attempt in the last few meters (to “cross the fence”), but then you are dead on energy and fully committed immediately thereafter
Yes – best glide is with a clean/er plane – if you are flying fast enough for the lower flap setting.
many (if not most) ATPL students actually want to start in a SEP/MEP.
I think this varies. IME, the vast majority of airline pilot students have zero interest in piston GA. One thing which seems apparent is that the clientele is quite susceptible to certain training routes being slagged off on airline pilot training forums, which are dominated by FTO owners posting in disguise
Perhaps coming back to the original topic: What has not been mentioned so far is, that many (if not most) ATPL students actually want to start in a SEP/MEP.
There might be some that are so intrigued by the technology of an A380 that this is the only thing to think about, but most if not all ATPL-students I met so far first and foremost wanted to fly! And they actually really enjoyed flying in a more basic form than operating an Airbus.
Graham wrote:
-extending the flaps-
Retracting the flaps (partially) is what BA38 did to extend the glide (almost) to the runway
This lowers drag, extends the glide.
Extending flaps to extend the glide can only serve as a last-ditch attempt in the last few meters (to “cross the fence”), but then you are dead on energy and fully committed immediately thereafter. I dont think this was done on BA38
Indeed, if you read the BA38 captain’s book it is quite clear that extending the flaps was basically a ‘try something’ option.
With reference to the same book, it is quite an achievement to write a ‘my side of the story’ book that paints the author in a fairly bad light. Perhaps not what he intended, but achieved nonetheless.
Airborne_Again wrote:
The only “extraordinary” action taken by the crew was reducing flaps and – unless they knew beforehand what the effect would be in a glide situation – that action could just as well have had a negative effect
Of course hindsight is powerful and now we know it was the only way of reaching the runway. Did they know? Perhaps not, but
a) They thought of it in a few seconds , and
b) They were willing to try it
I have personally done quite a bit of simulated power-off training including glide adjustment by flap setting and like to think it would help me in such a scenario.
I doubt any part of their formal airline training drove them to a) or b)
