that we would fly 140 indicated to four miles they agreed and it all was a non-event.
You know what you are doing 
Now imagine it if you didn’t.
The Fokker pilot realised you are a pro.
Also you have air brakes, I think.
At first they didn’t sound to happy when we suggested that we would be number one
I was in simular situation once although Auto-Info airfield not AFIS, I asked the other guy to go first and be my guest, he suggested I go first as he has load of fuel, “civil aviation with manners”: none of us was in a hurry to sample cloudbase that day
We were in Hemavan last June and it was exactly as A_A describes it. I did read his blog so it didn’t come as a surprise 😉 We arrived together with an F50 and we had to negotiate with them. We had heard them on the info frequency before, but info didn’t sequence us at all. Once we were on the Hemavan frequency we talked to the Fokker. We were both in IMC and we were closer to the IAF. At first they didn’t sound too happy when we suggested that we would be number one but when we told them our estimate to the fix and that we would fly 140 indicated to four miles they agreed and it all was a non-event.
EDIT to add: AFIS didn’t interfere with this either.
Peter wrote:
This stuff has been debated for the two decades I’ve been flying and it has always hit a total roadblock at the point where somebody suggests that it should be done totally by self-announcement.
Once again, I have never said that AFIS airports in Sweden operate entirely with self-announcement. I said from the very beginning that the AFISO was involved. Sometimes I get the impression that people are not actually reading posts before they reply. In any case, a suggestion to join a hold is exactly that. There is no suggestion about tracks, levels etc. or anything else that is the task of an approach controller.
which avoids the ATC unions going crazy
You keep coming back to trade unions. Whatever goes on in the UK that may be behind that doesn’t necessarily transfer to other countries.
This is what I meant by key detail missing.
Sweden has done a variation of what France and Spain do: they use FISOs to “advise” traffic about who else is flying an approach, which avoids the ATC unions going crazy because a person who is not the proper “ATC” pay grade is “controlling” traffic.
With the present Swedish regulations the AFIS unit can do sequencing in the sense that they can suggest to arriving traffic (both VFR and IFR) that they join a hold while other traffic is completing an approach or departure
This stuff has been debated for the two decades I’ve been flying and it has always hit a total roadblock at the point where somebody suggests that it should be done totally by self-announcement.
arj1 wrote:
Airborne_Again could you please elaborate? Missed that. Thanks!
I’m afraid not. My information comes from the Swedish CAA. Apparently what happens now is that EASA will introduce standard phraseology for AFIS units which does not include the possibility of suggesting courses of action to pilots. This will replaces the national Swedish phraseology which does include that possibility.
Airborne_Again wrote:
With the present Swedish regulations the AFIS unit can do sequencing in the sense that they can suggest to arriving traffic (both VFR and IFR) that they join a hold while other traffic is completing an approach or departure, but with harmonised EASA rules for AFIS in effect later this year (I believe) even that will not be possible.
@Airborne_Again could you please elaborate? Missed that. Thanks!
Ibra wrote:
I was thinking about the scenarios where you need QNH to descend bellow transition level before switching to AD frequency, that should be provided by some APP ATC or APP FIS?
Once again. There is no “APP” in these situations.
Either the AFISO will relay the MET REPORT to enroute ATC who will give it to you, or you will be handed over to the AFIS unit well before reaching the transition level.
If IAF is in controlled airspace or route you need clearance to that IAF
Certainly, but as I wrote previously there is only one AFIS airport in Sweden where this happens — and even then not necessarily at all times as the ATC unit concerned is not open H24.
(if IAF OCAS, no clearance but surely enroute FIS do some “one at the time” sequencing?)
They do not.
With the present Swedish regulations the AFIS unit can do sequencing in the sense that they can suggest to arriving traffic (both VFR and IFR) that they join a hold while other traffic is completing an approach or departure, but with harmonised EASA rules for AFIS in effect later this year (I believe) even that will not be possible.
The AFISO provides the MET REPORT which includes the QNH
I was thinking about the scenarios where you need QNH to descend bellow transition level before switching to AD frequency, that should be provided by some APP ATC or APP FIS?
Yes latter you get QNH from AFIS to land
If IAF is in controlled airspace or route you need clearance to that IAF (if IAF OCAS, no clearance but surely enroute FIS do some “one at the time” sequencing?)
There is the AFIS unit and the enroute ATC – which also provides FIS in the class G outside of the airport RMZ.
Ah that was not clear then, you have enroute FIS who does “Approach Info”
Can you fly to these airfields IFR without even talking to APP FIS?
We are all saying the same “en-route FIS (ATC in Golf)” do “Approach Information” (not Approach Control) and that is how things work in these small airfields
In few places where en-route ATC don’t do FIS OCAS, this can’t work…
Peter wrote:
No need; one just needs Swedish pilots to post the details in our forum
You can read all about uncontrolled IFR in Sweden on my blog here.
