I use Geneva and either Dole or Dijon as alternates for Annemasse.
Peter wrote:
What puzzles me is why an airport says you cannot file it as an alternate.
Admittedly it was an unusual situation, but the Spanish AIP used to have a ‘Gibraltar cannot be filed as alternate, any FPL that includes it will be rejected’ notice.
Not the case anymore, these days you can fly directly from Spain to Gib. Wonder how many more examples like that are out there.
I would try Lyon-Bron as alternate (LFLY) if Annecy is not available. It can be a pain in the ass to fly in wintertime to e.g. Chambery (LFLB). I once got permission, but when flying inbound from Luxembourg would be told that they could not accept me after all. The excuse that was given was a takeoff time that was 15 minutes later than in the flightplan. I told ATC I could not accept that as I would be at the IAF at the exact time I had planned. Anyways, they let me divert to Lyon-Bron. Once landed at Lyon, I found out that there was this big exibition going on there with most of the hotels booked except for the most expensive rooms in the Hilton. It only happened once. No problem flying direct to Courchevel though, but you always have to be aware that you might not be able to land there and then you need an alternate. If I am not allowed to land at Chambery (without paying the high handling fee in wintertime) I fly on towards Lyon-Bron.
Mooney_Driver wrote:
That is correct. I simply never tried what would happen if I turn up in a PPR airport as a diversion. VFR I am not sure at all whether e.g. Geneva or ZRH would accept a diversion just like that. And of course you might end up grounded if there is no outbound slot.
You shouldn’t file a PPR airport as alternate without actually getting permission, but a slot requirements isn’t the same thing as PPR.
Actually Transavia had to divert from Rotterdam once in bad weather. They wanted to divert to Eindhoven.
in Eindhoven the weather was still fine but they had notammed as well that you could not use them as alternate.
In the end they had to go to Amsterdam.. went missed twice due to windshere. They had to declare a low fuel emergency and in the end managed to land at Amsterdam with only a bit of flaps at very high speed (something had gone broken).
It happens to the big boys as well
Airborne_Again wrote:
You don’t necessarily need a slot to use an airport as an alternate.
That is correct. I simply never tried what would happen if I turn up in a PPR airport as a diversion. VFR I am not sure at all whether e.g. Geneva or ZRH would accept a diversion just like that. And of course you might end up grounded if there is no outbound slot.
Mooney_Driver wrote:
He can in an emergency, correct. Other than that, no. Airports which are closed to you as civil private GA have all the right in the world to refuse you, in fact, they do that regularly via PPR and slots. When the slots are used up, no flying.
You don’t necessarily need a slot to use an airport as an alternate.
Peter wrote:
Is it done to forcefully drive home the point that since you cannot land there normally, you cannot land there as a diversion either?
Basically they want to say we are full up and won’t accept any diversions. ZRH does the same during the WEF.
I am not even sure how airports like that with PPR would react if you try to divert there during non-notamed times.
Probably to stress the fact that they operate at / beyond capacity and if you divert there you’ll probably be already low on fuel forcing them to give you priority and screwing up their traffic flow. Not to mention GA traffic at non-jet speeds. Weekend traffic in Geneva is a thing to behold.
Sure you cannot do a non-mayday landing at an airport which is PPR / slotted etc.
What puzzles me is why an airport says you cannot file it as an alternate.
Is it done to forcefully drive home the point that since you cannot land there normally, you cannot land there as a diversion either?
